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Apple Unveils M2

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Re: Apple Unveils M2

#371

Post by bogwog »

simonh wrote: post #355
bogwog wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How has that been "proven"? If your argument is that people are still buying Macs despite the lack of customization, well that's ignoring the state of the market. Most consumers only have two choices (Mac or Windows), and oftentimes it comes down to familiarity with one OS over the other, rather than any specific features or merits of the actual product. If Apple released a "customizable" Mac, or one that could be up…

There has been tons of research in this. Of consumer machines capable of being upgraded, only a low single digit percentage of them ever are. Factor in issues with driver support and updates for arbitrary hardware, the weight premium for upgradability, compromises in chassis rigidity and resilience to add removable panels and it’s just hugely wasteful and compromises quality for the vast majority of owners.

Can you cite any of this research? I'm not doubting your claims, I'm legitimately curious.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#372

Post by corrral »

smlacy wrote: post #358
corrral wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major factor in achieving excellent battery life coupled with relatively good performance & responsiveness, on Apple products, is the OS. That holds for both Macs and iDevices.

So you're saying that BSD has better power management than Linux? Would love to see some real research and analysis on this.

My claim is that macOS and iOS have far better power management than Linux or Windows, or Android, respectively. Possibly that's directly due to their BSD heritage, but I doubt it.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#373

Post by arcticfox »

dmix wrote: post #202
smoldesu wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: M2 is a tock release, not a tick. This is pretty much the same behavior that ended up getting Intel shot in the foot: leaning too heavily on marginal performance increases from process enhancement will bite you in the butt when your competitors get their tech on your node. Intel and AMD are both going to be on 5nm in 2023, Apple should be pretty worried if this is what they're fighting with. 3nm isn't e…

Apple doesn't really have to worry about competition too much for a long time, even if Intel and AMD get comparable watt/power levels for laptops, Apple isn't going to be using them for their products anytime soon. And people using Macbooks aren't likely to switch to Windows/Linux machines, even if there is a 20% better CPU. But really we've only had 2.5 released cycles so far. Not much to go by.

I might be a very small minority but I'd personally switch back to Linux in an instant if there was something comparable to the M series hardware

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#374

Post by reaperducer »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #315
DonHopkins wrote: post #137

I got an M1 Macbook Pro, and yeah, the processor is fast and cool and all that, but the most absolutely wonderful thing about it by far is that there's no touchbar!

Am I the only one who just ignored the touchbar and didn't take it as a personal affront?

My work machine has one, and I use it to display status information, give me a proper Rub Out key, and for soft keys to insert certain Unicode and macros that I need occasionally, but not often enough to remember.

I think it would have been better accepted if Apple make it more customizable right out of the box, instead of relying on half-baked solutions from tinkerers to program it.

In my opinion, it should also have been in addition to the function keys, not a replacement.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#376

Post by mwcampbell »

smlacy wrote: post #358
corrral wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major factor in achieving excellent battery life coupled with relatively good performance & responsiveness, on Apple products, is the OS. That holds for both Macs and iDevices.

So you're saying that BSD has better power management than Linux? Would love to see some real research and analysis on this.

Apple's kernel isn't merely one of the BSD derivatives. And of course their userland is mostly proprietary.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#377

Post by atq2119 »

smlacy wrote: post #358
corrral wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major factor in achieving excellent battery life coupled with relatively good performance & responsiveness, on Apple products, is the OS. That holds for both Macs and iDevices.

So you're saying that BSD has better power management than Linux? Would love to see some real research and analysis on this.

It's not a BSD vs. Linux thing. It's the entire software stack including user space, e.g. how much is the CPU woken up by silly background tasks doing useless things. That thing can be fixed regardless of the underlying kernel if people care enough. The total investment in desktop Linux is tiny compared to what Apple puts into macOS.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#378

Post by Beltalowda »

mbreese wrote: post #263
Beltalowda wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the day when laptops still came with a CD/DVD drive by default I had a customer with a broken MacBook that didn't power on at all, and some expensive disc was stuck in the drive. Pretty much all disc drives that have been produced in the history of disc drives come with a little pinhole where you can stick in a paperclip to manually push the opening mechanism exactly for this kind of scenario, so you can reco…

It's not like those Macbooks were all that difficult to take apart. I know I took mine apart to remove the DVD drive to replace it with an SSD. It was something like this: https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/macbook-pro-u...

It's stupid if you need to do it in the first place, and/or that you need to hire an IT person to do it for you. What if it was still in warranty? What if you wanted it repaired? If you needed that disc you were screwed until the Apple Certified™ repair centre could do their thing.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#379

Post by fyzix »

GeekyBear wrote: post #240
smoldesu wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: M2 is a tock release, not a tick. This is pretty much the same behavior that ended up getting Intel shot in the foot: leaning too heavily on marginal performance increases from process enhancement will bite you in the butt when your competitors get their tech on your node. Intel and AMD are both going to be on 5nm in 2023, Apple should be pretty worried if this is what they're fighting with. 3nm isn't e…

AMD recently teased a ~15% single threaded performance increase for Zen4 when they will move from TSMC 7nm to TSMC 5nm. Apple just teased ~18% CPU increase while staying on TSMC 5nm. Sounds like they are doing just fine.

That 18% is multicore

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#380

Post by royletron »

Can anyone fathom how a M2 MBP 13inch would stack up against the current M1Pro MBP 14-16inch? This whole CPU/GPU thing is hard to make out. An 8core M2 which has 12% more oomph then an M1 makes it equivalent to a 8.96core M1? What's wrong with clock speed...
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