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Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

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Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#371
post #357

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Unfortunately, manufacturers' interests are often not aligned with retail customers' interests. For example, with Tesla, the company optimizes delivery numbers of cars sold by sacrificing quality control, and their service center model is anemic and almost an afterthought, especially when it comes to addressing the QC issues their customers experience. For every Tesla with 400k miles on them with a few thousand dolla…

> the company optimizes delivery numbers of cars sold by sacrificing quality control How do you know this? Did you see their internal data? There are lots of anecdotes going around about Tesla's quality. However, with all the TeslaQ it is hard to believe that there is real correlation between anecdotes and data. Here are my anecdotes - I owned 6 Teslas over last several years. Not one of them had any QC issues. I had…

Just because you don't notice issues don't mean there aren't issues. Tesla is widely regarded by "car people," both those who own them and those who don't, as having some of the worst fit and finish of any production car in the US. It's been that way since the Roadster. Here's a video review of the most expensive Tesla you can buy, by someone who rates cars professionally and rates it among the best he's ever driven, with paint flecks on the mirrors and other pretty egregious issues given the price point - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qen0ZlZM0ZA - and the video is less than a year old so it's unlikely given the long history of these and similar issues that they've made radical changes to their processes in the last 9 months or so.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#372

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Well tesla has seemed to trying shooting themselves in the foot with their truck rollout. Naming it "cyber truck" then making it look like a bad hot wheels, giving it a small bed with angled sided making it badly shaped for carrying many loads (like a pickups bed is meant for), using new manufacturing technique for its body which results in problems that slow production, bragging about it being indestructible then br…

> giving it a small bed with angled sided making it badly shaped for carrying many loads I genuinely doubt the average Cybertruck customer is planning on using for hauling anything more than kids and groceries.

then why not get another form factor better suited to hauling kids and groceries.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#373

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$3k in maintenance costs for 400,000km? I call bull shit. In Tesla tire sizes, you're looking at $1000 for a cheap ass set of tires. Certainly not gonna last 100,000 miles either.

You don't need to buy tires at the dealership, and in fact most people don't.

No, certainly you can go to Discount Tire and buy a set of bargain basement $400 20" tires for your $100,000 car.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#374
post #183

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I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part -- the car sales are more-or-less break-even after the monthly sales bonus incentives, which is why the dealer does the two-part "let me check with the guy in the back" and then "now that you've agreed to a price, you can talk to the guy in the back who will play 'good cop', explain things in plain english, and then try to upsel…

> I'm under the impression that the service part of the dealership _is_ the profitable part If you drive a Ford, sure, it needs a lot of service. Which is why I stopped buying Ford. Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer. And when you move to EV, you need even less service than before since the is no ICE to maintain.

I have a 19 year old Ford Focus that has been great. It's not much on creature comforts but it starts and runs like new. I've had two Hondas of the same vintage with dead transmissions.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to buy tires at the dealership, and in fact most people don't.

No, certainly you can go to Discount Tire and buy a set of bargain basement $400 20" tires for your $100,000 car.

The entry-level Tesla 3 was $35k, and most tire shops have better prices even on the fancy tires than the dealerships.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#376
post #241

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I’ll second this from a privileged position. I own a late model Land Rover, and if I take it down to the dealer to solve something, they treat me very well and put me in a very nice lounge while I wait. It’s a first class experience. I don’t think I’d get as nice attention from a non-luxury dealer though.

I would rather they pickup my car fix it and return it. To me that is luxury. Forcing me to go to your location and waiting on you is not convenient.

I get that option from both my Lincoln dealer and my Audi dealer, even for scheduled services. And they both leave a loaner with me, not some Uber credits.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#377
post #85

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>That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? the only thing I can think to say is that they are still a convenient repair facility, Tesla is fairly notorious for slow turn-around for repair.[0] I think a nice middle-ground would be the conversion of dealerships into showrooms/receiving-centers/repair facilities -- oust the sales porti…

All manufacturers can suffer from poor repair times, not only Tesla. Especially these days. I waited six months for a brake booster replacement in my Audi SQ5 as it sat in the service center. They did give me a loaner the whole time though...

RS 5 owner (and a few As). Any time my Audi has been in the shop for more than 2 hours I'm offered or given a loaner. Or they pick up my car, at home, drop off a loaner, and then return mine.

Try that with Tesla. Hey, we can give you Uber credits. Hope they're usable in your area, and you didn't have too much to do.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#378
post #367
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the company optimizes delivery numbers of cars sold by sacrificing quality control How do you know this? Did you see their internal data? There are lots of anecdotes going around about Tesla's quality. However, with all the TeslaQ it is hard to believe that there is real correlation between anecdotes and data. Here are my anecdotes - I owned 6 Teslas over last several years. Not one of them had any QC issues. I had…

>I owned 6 Teslas over the last several years. ??????? Why on earth would you need this many Teslas? Maybe if you are buying so many teslas then it makes sense why you don't need them serviced - you barely give them enough time to wear themselves out!

If you buy the latest and greatest and continuously upgrade to the next greatest it’s not that expensive; often cheaper than leasing.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diplomacy is the art of saying “good dog” until you make it to the rock. Ford is learning what Tesla knew from the start: dealership interests aren’t aligned with EV manufacturers. There’s very little service revenue, and dealers are incentivized to add “market adjustments” to vehicles (which Ford dealers have been doing) creating a poor customer experience. Ford has existing dealerships and is going to have a heck o…

Unfortunately, manufacturers' interests are often not aligned with retail customers' interests. For example, with Tesla, the company optimizes delivery numbers of cars sold by sacrificing quality control, and their service center model is anemic and almost an afterthought, especially when it comes to addressing the QC issues their customers experience. For every Tesla with 400k miles on them with a few thousand dolla…

Dealerships are rent seeking entities that exist purely due to laws that force consumers to deal with them and only them. They are not in either consumer or manufacturers interest.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#380
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? the only thing I can think to say is that they are still a convenient repair facility, Tesla is fairly notorious for slow turn-around for repair.[0] I think a nice middle-ground would be the conversion of dealerships into showrooms/receiving-centers/repair facilities -- oust the sales porti…

Tesla's wait times could be because they are scaling up and part delays.

Tesla's wait times are because every part that sits on a shelf for warranty/service/accident repairs is a part that can't go on a vehicle coming off the assembly line, and we all know that Tesla / Elon has a raging hard on for "deliveries, deliveries, deliveries".

"Because they're scaling up". They've been making vehicles for 14 years, how much more time do they get to realize they should have a parts network?

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