Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money • Hacker News Board

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#371

Post by traceroute66 » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #158

>Other examples of products that seem to exhibit a similar trend, where purported convenience leads to higher prices >Cooking equipment: essentially indestructible Cast Iron skillets transition into teflon pans. The newer pans perform worse, and must be replaced on a shockingly regular basis. They also seem to be poisonous. They have their uses. I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you…

> The newer pans perform worse, and must be replaced on a shockingly regular basis.

No.

Like most things in this life, you get what you pay for.

If you cheap out on "newer pans" then sure, they won't last you because the manufacturer will use cheap manufacturing processes in order to achieve your stingy price point.

If you buy decent pans from reputable manufacturers, they will last you a lot longer.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#372

Post by gruez » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #348

gruez wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nonstick pans contain hormone disrupting chemicals Again, is this during manufacture or in the finished product? In my comment I specifically said it was poisonous during manufacture. >Just google it and there are numerous resources I checked on wikipedia and I found no mentions of that in the finished product .

>I checked on wikipedia and I found no mentions of that in the finished product. It's both/ Read the article I linked above "most people in the U.S. have PFAS in their bloodstream" so these chemicals are toxic in the finished product (which they then digest when using) and during manufacture. >While contamination of drinking water around military bases and factories gets most of the attention, the EPA says 80 percent…

>It's both/ Read the article I linked above "most people in the U.S. have PFAS in their bloodstream" so these chemicals are toxic in the finished product (which they then digest when using) and during manufacture.

The "product" in this case being "non-stick pans", or various other consumer products? The wikipedia article seems to suggest the latter.

>they are still produced internationally and are imported into the United States in consumer goods such as carpet, leather and apparel, textiles, paper and packaging, coatings, rubber and plastics

>In 2020, manufacturers and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced an agreement to phase out some types of PFAS which are used in food packaging by 2024

>PFAS are also used by major companies of the cosmetics industry in a wide range of cosmetics, including lipstick, eye liner, mascara, foundation, concealer, lip balm, blush, nail polish and other such products

Based on that, I'm inclined to believe that there's a bunch of ways for PFAS to get into people's bloodstreams, but cookware isn't one of them (I did a quick search and they're not mentioned in the article, aside from a reference to a california legislation requiring them to be labeled). That's perfectly consistent with my prior claim that "finished non-stick pans are safe" and your claim that "most people in the U.S. have PFAS in their bloodstream".

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#373

Post by justusthane » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #336

hindsightbias wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one conspiracy theory I believe in, it’s /reddit/r/castiron is a troll site created to make people believe ‘seasoning’ is really a thing. After spending a few weeks trying, I’ve had multiple people tell me they got theirs ‘seasoned’ after three or four months. Don’t let yourself be sucked in.

Yeah, it's very largely BS. If you cook enough bacon and high-fat foods in it over time.... sure. But people who say you can easily cook eggs in it or everything else "after its seasoned" are just not to be listened to. Use a nonstick. EDIT: Or carbon steel I guess. Even then, meh. Remember that the vast majority of professional chefs use nonstick skillets specifically for eggs both at home and in their workplace.

But you can, and I do. I cook everything in cast iron and nothing sticks.

That said, one thing I have come to realize over the past couple of decades of cooking with cast iron is that seasoning is less some mystical ritual that is performed one time, and more a result of proper use and care of the pan over time.

But yes, there is lots of ritualized BS (“Don’t wash it”, “Never use dish soap”, “Only season it using flax oil in the oven at 200 degrees for four hours”, etc etc etc).

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#374

Post by diogenescynic » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

ElevenLathe wrote: post #259

moron4hire wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A $50 angle grinder and a little time will turn $20 lodge cast iron pans into the kind of quality cast iron pans that I've seen people spend hundreds of dollars on to buy antiques.

what do you do with the angle grinder?

I wouldn't bother with all that. I'd recommend finding an antique cast iron pan (local thrift store, flea markets, Etsy, or eBay) and restoring it (there are services for this or you can do it yourself fairly easy) and using that. The antique pans are just way better.

Or you can try carbon steel which is more forgiving than cast iron. Blanc Creatives makes a great carbon steel pan/skillet.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#375

Post by algoatecorn » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

SergeAx wrote: post #363

algoatecorn wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I got rid of our TV last year when we moved. It was a nice break, but we want at least one in the house, so we're currently shopping around for a nice 4K 70+ inch. I've come to realize the market is headed toward a TV without any ports. You'll plug it in and immediately prompted to link with wifi so you can log into your streaming services. Fuck that. I'm hell-bent on getting something with zero smart fun…

My favorite shopping aggregator found 840 TVs from 70 to 85 inches. 503 of them has 4 HDMI inputs. Seems like it is most popular number of inputs for TV of that size. PC, Xbox, Playstation, media player. Do you need more?

I'm not having trouble finding one. All I said is that I'm currently shopping around, and my prediction for the future is that kind of TV will become scarce.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#376

Post by convolvatron » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #280

55555 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate?

Before something like the 1950s, casting techniques created a much rougher pan that fundamentally required grinding of the surfaces to make a usable cook surface. New(er) casting techniques developed that had a much tighter sand-pack for the casting mold, plus some sand blasting after the mold, made for a faster production cycle, but at the cost of leaving a slightly pebbly surface on the pan. Because the older techn…

I think even without the angle grinder it wouldn't take much work starting at 220 by hand. use vegetable or food safe mineral oil and wet/dry paper.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#377

Post by akeck » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

algoatecorn wrote: post #278

gruez wrote: post #158

>Other examples of products that seem to exhibit a similar trend, where purported convenience leads to higher prices >Cooking equipment: essentially indestructible Cast Iron skillets transition into teflon pans. The newer pans perform worse, and must be replaced on a shockingly regular basis. They also seem to be poisonous. They have their uses. I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you…

My wife and I got rid of our TV last year when we moved. It was a nice break, but we want at least one in the house, so we're currently shopping around for a nice 4K 70+ inch. I've come to realize the market is headed toward a TV without any ports. You'll plug it in and immediately prompted to link with wifi so you can log into your streaming services. Fuck that. I'm hell-bent on getting something with zero smart fun…

When our work-horse Toshiba finally fails, we're going to replace it with either a large gaming monitor or a pro signage monitor from B&H/Adorama.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#378

Post by tristor » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #158

>Other examples of products that seem to exhibit a similar trend, where purported convenience leads to higher prices >Cooking equipment: essentially indestructible Cast Iron skillets transition into teflon pans. The newer pans perform worse, and must be replaced on a shockingly regular basis. They also seem to be poisonous. They have their uses. I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you…

> Also, claiming that they "seem to be poisonous" without any qualifiers is a little misleading. To my knowledge they're only poisonous during manufacturing (ie. the precursor chemicals) and when they get too hot.

1. The manufacturing process results in those precursor chemicals entering urban water supplies where they are nearly impossible to filter out (only RO is effective and it's not even 100% effective), and once in the bloodstream of people are powerful endrocrine disruptors which circulate and are filtered slowly by the kidneys... and when peed out go right back into the water supply due to not being able to be removed during treatment. These "forever chemicals" are some of the most health damaging pollutants in the West.

2. Teflon is extremely hazardous when consumed and it flakes off of the pans over time (which is why they must be replaced often) or when incorrect utensils are used (common among unsophisticated users).

3. Teflon can overheat on a standard consumer stove using standard cooking techniques. You actually need different techniques to prevent overheating a Teflon pan.

4. Cast Iron is effectively non-stick after enough use, and you can absolutely fry an egg in it without sticking if you have a smooth-bottom pan (either a vintage cast iron, new vintage-style, or a new style that you've sanded down and seasoned yourself).

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#379

Post by WaitWaitWha » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

Overall, I think the author is reaching a stage in their life where they recognize that things are "passing them by". They are proverbially "over the hill". Often this is chronologically after 40's or so, but can come sooner or later. It came about for me in my 50's. I raved and ranted for a few years how things are no longer available, changing, and changing for the worst. I now enjoy that I know the history why thing as they are, and whipper-snappers eat up my 'sage' story telling.

I do use a double edged safety razor, but I run into the same problem. Blades have to be ordered online. Disposable razors was a convenience, that become the norm.

> Cooking equipment

I buy it the commercial grade, ugly looking ones from bulk/wholesale stores. They are not pretty, but they are functional, very sturdy, very inexpensive, and work both on the stove top and in the oven. Fancy pots & pans is a luxury in my opinion, that become the norm.

> Tea bags replace loose leaf tea.

Bagged tea is less expensive (Irish breakfast) where I travel than loose leaf.

> Nespresso machines, and other coffee pod brands

Agreed, this is purely paying for convenience, at an extreme premium. This is a luxury in my opinion, not the norm.

> Well understood mechanical bike shifting transitions to electronic shifting

Electrified bikes and bikes with electric shifting is not the majority. This is a luxury in my opinion, not the norm.

> Televisions moving from being screens which accept input, to self contained 'smart' devices

Agreed, this is a nightmare as it binds two different vendors together, increasing the chances of stuck with an obsolete system. This is a luxury in my opinion, that was forced upon us to be the norm.

> In many inner city shops it is now hard to buy an individual piece of fruit.

Not the places I have been (Asia, Central & Eastern Europe, all of the Americas). Walk into grocery store, and start picking the individual fruit.

> Subscription services like Hello Fresh, where you can pay well over the odds to have some vegetables delivered to you.

This is a luxury in my opinion, not the norm, that is forced on us. The recent forced isolation make it a necessity for some.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#380

Post by jamal-kumar » Sat, May 07, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

nrclark wrote: post #166

gruez wrote: post #158

>Other examples of products that seem to exhibit a similar trend, where purported convenience leads to higher prices >Cooking equipment: essentially indestructible Cast Iron skillets transition into teflon pans. The newer pans perform worse, and must be replaced on a shockingly regular basis. They also seem to be poisonous. They have their uses. I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you…

> I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you can, but it requires an absurd amount of oil). FWIW it's pretty easy to fry eggs in a cast iron. You do have to oil the pan, but I wouldn't call it absurd. Just a dollop of oil in the pan. And the end result has a crispy, yummy texture that's hard to achieve with Teflon. It just takes a little practice and an open mind.

You can also poach eggs just fine in a cast iron pan.

Fried eggs are just aldehyde cancer hell. There's so much out there you can cook without any oil and it's handy to know for sure. Try cooking stuff in sauces instead for example.