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FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

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Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#371

This just in: D.C. Circuit judge somehow shocked to learn elites get special treatment in our society.

No, a DC Circuit Judge is shocked to learn that an FBI agent was explicitly stating that they were treating residents of an affluent neighborhood differently.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#372
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not knocking implies that you live there and have a right to utilize the residence which flies in the face of Amendment #3. The fact that they’re geared like the military, etc just makes this even more obvious to me. Add to the fact that police will be stationed there over multiple days to investigate the domicile… sounds like quartering to me.

It sounds to me that the US Congress is the only body that can ban these atrocities nationwide. Is this true? > Use of no-knock warrants has increased substantially over time. By one estimate, there were 1,500 annually in the early 1980s whereas by 2010 there were 60,000–70,000 no-knock or quick-knock raids conducted by local police annually, the majority of which were looking for marijuana. > Currently, Florida, Ore…

The Supreme Court could rule that no-knock warrants are unconstitutional, but that's not going to happen with this court, so yes, practically speaking, it's on Congress.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#374
post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

Duncan Lemp was white, and was similarly awoken in the middle of the night by police, reached for a gun, and was shot dead (unlike Locke, I don't think he even pointed the gun at them). It actually happened the day before the Breonna Taylor shooting (another similar situation), but received almost no media attention. Even around the area where Duncan Lemp was killed, you will find a lot of posters for Breonna Taylor,…

I hope you can understand why common media did not amplify Duncan Lemp's voice - as he had prior intent to harm police and was co-opted as a symbol for extremist right-wing groups. [0]

You will find very little support for no-knock raids but with the circumstances related to their deaths[0], comparing Duncan Lemp to Breonna Taylor is a disingenuous tu quoque.

[0]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/duncan-le...

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just isn't persuasive. You can find support for any wacky idea "in academia", at any end of the political spectrum --- I don't go around saying that conservatives are deeply invested in the idea of a Catholic Integralist theocracy, and so I object to the idea that you get to drag out someone's Masters in Tumblr Theory graduate thesis to win arguments. Meanwhile: in public policy? In political messaging? Support…

> I suspect that what's happening here is that you've mistaken the notion that people have itchy trigger fingers about people trash-talking single moms (they do) with the idea that people widely believe "single mom" is an optimal child rearing arrangement (they do not). I think they are so afraid of being accused of "trash-talking single moms," or alienating the academics and activists, that they won't advocate in th…

It's easy to find Democrats talking about the importance of fatherhood, and that's backed up by public policy: for instance, a goal of Paid Family Leave is ensuring that fathers have time with new children, not just mothers.

It's harder to find Democrats extolling the virtues of two-parent families. But that's no surprise: "two-parent family" is coded right-wing, and politically involves not just the importance of kids having two parents, but also of pushing back on equity in the workplace for women, or benefits for single parents (and, if you go far enough back, say to the 1970s and 1980s, towards liberalized divorce laws).

So I think the claim that liberals avoid talking about family values fails. They use different language than conservatives, but that's just how politics works. You can exploit the semiotics of political messaging to paint either side any way you want, but the idea that liberals are opposed to two-parent households is inconsistent with what liberals advocate for.

An appeal to what gets shouted down on Facebook groups† also isn't persuasive. First, note that you didn't get shouted down for saying that fathers are important (which is how you'd code an appeal to two-parent child-rearing --- single-parent households in the US are overwhelmingly, like >85%, led by mothers). But also: Facebook groups are cliques. There are popular Facebook groups in Oak Park that would ban you for arguing against abolishing the police. But defunding the police failed on our last ballot by something like 70-30. Biden carried our precincts overwhelmingly; by a far higher margin than Cook County as a whole.

Finally, for all you're saying about the downwind effects of elite liberal take-havers saying it's OK to pursue single parenthood, in context what you're trying to say is "violent crime statistics that prominently feature Black people is a natural consequence of liberals de-emphasizing two-parent households". I'm sorry, that's plainly false. None of the circumstances this thread talks about have anything to do with BLM talking about people being raised in part by aunties and grandmas, or anything said on Twitter.

I said upthread and I'll say it again: it wouldn't be fair for me to try to paint conservative thought by what Sohrab Ahmari believes, let alone Marjorie Taylor Greene. But that's effectively what you're doing when you suggest that BLM-Facebook-thought defines liberalism. Liberals overwhelmingly believe in the importance of two-parent child-rearing.

(As someone somewhat active in local politics, I'll add that Facebook is deeply problematic --- it stands in for public comment and discussion, but provides none of the safeguards of open meetings laws. There's also a trend towards municipalities outsourcing this kind of discussion to platforms like Granicus, with the same problems: private entities can control public speech, which is fine until they become the government's own formal mechanism for collecting feedback. It's a whole can of worms.)

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even that statement --- which few liberals are even aware of, let alone agree with --- is wildly misconstrued. It refers to the fact that Black families have historically lived in generational households with children raised by grandparents and aunts as well as parents, a model (1) common to several European ethnicities and (2) actively discriminated against in suburban America (explicitly, by zoning laws). It's not…

I think it requires some gymnastics to conclude that the statement doesn’t refer specifically to inter generational families without a married mother and father present: https://www.brookings.edu/research/an-analysis-of-out-of-wed... I fully believe that these differences in family structure are the product of cultural and economic destruction caused by slavery, Jim Crow, etc. So what’s the solution? For decades it’s…

The Brooking's article claims "Since 1970, out-of-wedlock birth rates have soared. In 1965, 24 percent of black infants and 3.1 percent of white infants were born to single mothers. By 1990 the rates had risen to 64 percent for black infants, 18 percent for whites."

Why would the racial gains made since the Civil Rights movement lead to fewer stable married households raising children?

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Character witnesses are extremely common[1]. The issue isn't whether the jury would have liked the victim. The question was "did the victim attack Kyle?". The fact that the victim had a known violent past is very relevant to that question. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/character_witness

The requirement for a victim’s character witness is that it be a “pertinent” trait. It’s not clear to me that a sexual crime (even an extremely serious one) provides is pertinent to an individual’s homicidal capacity, even if Rittenhouse was somehow aware of the victim’s prior conviction. Which brings us back to the parent’s original point.

A convicted child molester chasing and attacking a child on a public street at night does seem relevant.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#378
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is for the court of public opinion Agreed, > with an acquittal Disagree. It was the other way round for the Rittenhouse case. (I watched the entire stream. So for once, I can say I know about the case). Bringing their integrity into the conversation was a hail-mary play for conviction by the prosecutor, because they suspected they'd lose. The Rittenhouse trial had gone from a cut-n-dry innocence case to one that wa…

> the massive spike in homicides following police defunding Where have the police been defunded? Where is the massive spike in homicides?

Not sure about the latter but you would have to be hiding under a rock to not notice the massive upswing in homicides in the U.S.

See https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-murder-rate-violence-big-citie...

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think the NRA would be all over this: a legal gun owner killed in his home by police? Nope In the gun community the NRA is generally seen has having failed gun owners. There are many cases similar to Amir Locke's. One in particular is Duncan Lemp.

> In the gun community the NRA is generally seen has having failed gun owners. NRA accomplished some wicked and absurd goals (one might not think it possible if it hadn't already happened) and I think by proxy accomplished a huge one through Justice Scalia which significantly, drastically and fundamentally changed the meaning of the 2nd Amendment from a selfless right to stand guard against tyranny to an intensely an…

" This was illegal, unconstitutional, and a massive overreach by Scalia, because obviously he undermined the Founders' expressed requirement for a Constitutional convention and 2/3rds both houses of Congress or of State legislatures to change the Constitution."

You are obviously not a lawyer.

"That this defacement of the Constitution occurred in the way that it did, the 2nd was vandalized without altering the literal words, is interesting, but I believe it only a matter of time before parts of DC v Heller (2008) are overturned for lack of accuracy, overreach, and flippantly reversing a hundred plus years of court precedent with garbage reasoning."

Have you read Heller, McDonald, or any of the various Circuit cases on Second Amendment rights?

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone says that “teachers are racist” and points to differing graduation rates of white and Black kids, do you take that assertion at face value? Or do you point out that the kids aren’t similarly situated. Obviously the latter. It doesn’t make sense to blame teachers for disparities that exist at more basic levels. So why don’t you apply the same logic to OP’s statement above? The data shows that there is no di…

Liberals are invested in social theories that reject the importance of fathers in socializing boys? Are you sure you're not getting this stuff from Youtube, and kind of winding yourself up? Stable two-parent households, high education, and liberalism are all correlated.

I think there are a significant number of liberals, and not just crazy people on the internet, who think this. A data point: a while ago, I fell down a rabbit hole arguing with social justice people online who maintained that the notion that fatherlessness in the black community was problematic was a "myth." They justified their claim on the basis of a US government report which indicated that single black fathers spent more time with their kids as single white fathers. Seeing as this was a clear instance of Simpson's paradox (since non-single fathers of all races spend more time with their children than single fathers of all races, and there are more black single fathers than non-black single fathers), I assumed they'd just misappropriated unbiased research. But digging into the surveys they cited, I found that the researchers themselves had misrepresented their research in press outreach, in their official capacity as researchers. It was such an obvious case of statistical malpractice, I was shocked to see highly credentialed, well-published researchers engaging in it. What I have taken from this incident is that there are a substantial number of activists who have become so invested in social justice for African Americans that they will automatically discount any theory which they believe might place the locus of responsibility for change within the black community, even if the evidence for that theory is very strong.
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