Back to India • Hacker News Board

Re: Back to India

#371

Post by RestlessMind » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #36

frontman1988 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gap has reduced but Silicon Valley still pays 4-5 times more for the same job than Indian salaries. As a single guy you can save a lot even accounting cost of living. Probably the reason which helped OP come to India(along with Tesla stocks 10xing)

This is not true. The multiplier is at best 2-3x right now. Given the order of magnitude difference in living expenses this is insane.

Let's take a concrete example. Google India L4 compensation is 82K USD[1]. For SV, it's 268K[2]. That's >3x right now.

And accounting for 40% taxes and 30% spending (~7K per month which gives you a super comfortable lifestyle even in SV) leaves you with 30% savings, or ~84K USD which is the entire pre-tax pre-CoL salary for the same kind of work in India. Numbers are even more skewed as you become more senior.

Now one may argue with Google being an outlier. But Google is an outlier in India as well and a lot of companies pay similar (>3X between SV vs India). SV is also not special in that Seattle or NYC will net you similar numbers.

Care to cite some hard data about your statements?

[1] https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engi... [2] https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook&track=Softwa...

Re: Back to India

#372

Post by maccolgan » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

foolinaround wrote: post #306

unmole wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you don't speak the native language, you will be at a significant disadvantage when requiring the assistance of police. This is true true virtually everywhere in the world.

> This is true true virtually everywhere in the world. you don't expect it in your OWN country, just moving to a different state, you are an outsider. Its because India was put together just like that, because the British ruled over many peoples and their languages.

India is not really comparable to other nation-states. India is one of the few extant examples of a multinational state.

Re: Back to India

#373

Post by rohanm1 » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #40

Good for you but there’s no real advantage professionally in moving back, but no disadvantage either. Sure you’re saying H1B restricts but does it really? Have you truly explored all immigration options? Or did you just balk at all the extra beauracracy and said I’ll go back to india? Which is fine, but do note the irony of moving to india to avoid bureaucracy lol. Apply and do your GST, run between five different br…

My daughter goes to elementary school in Bay Area. She was cursed and told "Go home and tell you mother m**f** like this *" with obscene gestures. Based on our experience such rude, obscene and unhealthy behavior isn't uncommon. In addition, adults and kids are exposed to all shitty and violent content through streaming platforms which is also impacting their behavior.

What do you also think about safety with so much of gun violence and abuse going on in USA?

In our experience, private schools in India are much better and probably safer for kids. They offer all-round learning experience (books/studies, sports, cultural experience etc.) and hot fresh meals as well. It is expensive and hence it is not commonly available to all kids, but I don't think such school experience is available in USA as well (especially cold and frozen food given in schools).

While I agree about some of your points related to safety, pollution, and overall civic sense, I don't think it living in US is somehow better. May be you are living in USA with extreme privilege and/or with narrow vision and mindset. :)

Re: Back to India

#374

Post by bhargav » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 8:46 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #336

bhargav wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main advantage of India for me personally is a sense of community that I felt when I went back there after 8 years. Everyone in the society (i.e: I'd say equivalent to a street or a suburb) knows you and greets you. You go to the temple in the morning, and pickup some snacks along the way. In the evening, people go out to eat, meet their relatives, etc. There are pros and cons of this sense of community as well,…

Good that you like this but I honestly don’t like that. This is just a bunch of people saying hello. They’re no more helpful in the case of urgency than the average American you don’t know the name of. Thus what remains is only pervasive gossip. When people do unfathomable things like forcing marriages within caste this community “camaraderie” is what they use as the reason: “what will SOCIETY think of us?” You mean…

That's fair. So the whole people greeting you and saying hello, sounds a bit more like an overstatement. Here, I was speaking more to the fact that you can have a better social life there in general. Most NRI (non-residential Indians) that were born in India, will have a larger extended family back home. This brings a lot more family events, gatherings, and I am sure, drama; something you can maneuver around I think.

The whole what will SOCIETY think of us, I think it really varies depending on what parts of India you are in. At least in India, cultures vary greatly even from city to city. I have heard very very progressive things happening in India, and also very regressive things. It just depends on where you are and how much f*ks you give personally. Who cares what a lady three doors down thinks? Let them think what they want.

I definitely see your side of this though, as that was my perspective before. Mine is a bit different at the moment, but might change in the future.

Re: Back to India

#375

Post by rohanm1 » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 10:27 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #112

arcen wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree things aren't the best and you make several valid points. However, seems to me that you are in the camp who would rather shit on their own country instead of finding ways to make things better for everyone. You too are a part of the privileged class at this moment - sitting in the US (presumably).

Presumed wrong. I don’t comment on the state of affairs without having been back. Again I want to contribute to humanity and this planet, I don’t pledge allegiance to a line drawn by dipshits 70 years back.

How exactly are you contributing to humanity and this planet? Can you practically have no allegiance to any country or be citizen of no country?

Re: Back to India

#376

Post by thatloststudent » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 12:45 AM UTC

sid-ant wrote: post #43

FlyingSnake wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This unfortunate take is solely based on a single data point i.e. life of a North Indian in Bengaluru. Such extrapolations when applied to a huge and diverse country like India does not present a comprehensive picture. > Lastly, there isn't much to do besides going out to pubs/cafes. I am just amazed at this comment. The wondrous ruins of Hampi are just a train ride away. Then there's the UNESCO protected majestic we…

> The wondrous ruins of Hampi are just a train ride away. Then there's the UNESCO protected majestic western ghats few hours away, and not to mention the pristing beaches of Malpe and Udupi I agree, there are certainly amazing places to sight-see but I am largely referring to activities like rock climbing gyms ( https://www.youtube.com/c/magmidt88 ), archery, horse riding, accessible national parks and a more extensi…

>I am largely referring to activities like rock climbing gyms, archery, horse riding, accessible national parks and a more extensive board games culture

That is an interesting comment to see, because a cursory Google Maps search gives plenty of results. I think I can easily say that Bangalore has archery clubs [1], Rock Climbing gyms [2], Equestrian clubs [3] and a National park [4] (with others also pretty accessible). I can't, of course, talk about board games because I can't get that from a cursory Google search, but this is an interesting nitpick.

[1]: https://www.google.com/maps/search/bangalore+archery/@12.890...

[2]: https://www.google.com/maps/search/rock+climbing+gym/@12.890...

[3]: https://www.google.com/maps/search/equestrian+club/@12.89137...

[4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bannerghatta_National_Park

Re: Back to India

#377

Post by hvaoc » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 1:08 AM UTC

If someone with this much experience is going back to a third world country leaving it all back then you should know the pathetic state of US immigration.

US immigration is not flawed but carefully designed to benefit corporations to have enslaved foreign labor force available on their terms to keep their local labor workforce in check.

There is no other interpretation of it. Especially targeting those who born in countries like India who are ready to pay the price to stay in the US.

Living in the US is not as great as they make you believe.

Subpar experience for anyone from other developed country. So target US as a market never try to live there.

Note: I have worked in the US, had enough opportunity to live there but never bothered about it.

Re: Back to India

#378

Post by Markoff » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:05 AM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #369

Markoff wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with last paragraph, while maybe not very relevant for young single male, certainly very relevant who plans to settle down. But honestly choosing between US and India to raise kid is choosing between two very bad options and there are more options in world, someone with IT background shouldn't have many issues to move to Europe which would be certainly better option long term raising the family, but maybe sli…

As a desi, US and India are much better to raise kids compared to the European countries (well, except maybe for UK). It is easy to become an American within a few days of landing here. But I will never become French even after spending years or decades in France. Same goes with Germany, Italy, Norway, Poland or other places. European countries are nation states and while that may work out well for their citizens, it…

I don't understand, I am foreigner not living in my home country and I don't really understand why I should care that I will be never pure German/French/whatever. If I spoke fluently local language I can pretend I am local (since I am white) and locals born there wouldn't be able to spot it, but I would still know it anyway, so what's the point even pretending if you are not discriminated for being different?

Also France and Germany are quite multicultural, so I don't see how it's any different becoming French or German vs American or Brit in general. It just comes down to you being Indian and probably only country having large Indian population in Europe being UK, so they can think you was already born there and consider you local. Black people could already pass also for French, Turks for Germans, but yeah specifically Indians will stand out everywhere except UK as not being born there, but just because you stand out it doesn't make your life worse.

Other people stand out for other reasons than color of their skin anyway even if they are completely local and still live in their countries without moving to country where people like them stand out less. By your logic very tall people should move to Netherland, dwarfs should move to some dwarf colonies etc. so they won't stand out for being different, your skin color is just another thing to stand out.

Re: Back to India

#379

Post by Dharmakirti » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 3:26 PM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #153

Dharmakirti wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s telling that you skipped the real criticisms about your toxic empathy and lack of solutions to the casteism problem. Grovelling in firanghi forums and seeking gora validation by finger pointing will not help eliminate the problem in rural India. Avarnas are not a karma farms for savarnas on the internet.

Seems like your comments got flagged while mine stay up. I wish I could reply to what you said, but they’ve been deleted. I’d suggest you be less toxic in future. You can try to claim that you’re not using a casteist slur when you say Savarna but I’ve never heard anyone say that word without venom and hatred. If you think the sources (thePrint, Soch) I shared have issues, point them out. If you think either video mak…

My apologies that this discussion got heated and turned into a slug fest. Caste is a sensitive topic for me as I've personally seen it's ugly manifestations in several occasions. You seem like a well-read man albeit with a one-sided view (dare I say, with a western gaze) so I'll try to explain my points in a amicable way:

- Toxic empathy: Toxic empathy is when a person over-identifies with someone else's feelings and directly takes them on as their own. There is an active group of upper caste (Savarna) activists trying to milk the lower castes' lived experiences and making it about them. I was pointing to that hypocrisy.

- I can assure you that Savarna is not a casteist slur, it is a real word used in the Dalit lexicon. It is akin to calling a White person "Caucasian". It was used by Babasaheb and other dalit pioneers and it is a staple word in Ambedkarite literature. I implore you to read real dalit voices from India like Dhasal, Hansda Shekar, Daya Pawar to get a real picture.

- I also find your claim that Indian women or Indian Muslims or Indian Dalits don't have any such stories. (sorry paraphrasing). I have seen first-hand what strides India has taken post 90s and downtrodden peoples kids have climbed up the rungs and are doing great. India is definitely not a wonderland like the Nordics or USA, and has a long way to go, but it is definitely not the case of only Upper castes are progressing and women, muslims and dalits are shunned at the bottom of the society.

India is going through a flux and the casteism is definitely a bane to our society, but we can not eliminate it if we do not understand how it manifests. Peace out, Atta Deep Bhava.

P.S. These are the 3 links I shared after a cursory Google search

- https://www.thebetterindia.com/267994/dalit-entrepreneurs-ov...

- https://www.thebetterindia.com/278570/assam-woman-builds-tai...

- https://www.thebetterindia.com/138014/shattering-barriers-hy...

P.P.S: I also find it sad that Indians drag caste into any discussion about India, but you never see them attributing "White male privilege" in discussions like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30987472 or this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30985684 (I know Whataboutism and all but you get the gist)

Re: Back to India

#380

Post by pasabagi » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:47 PM UTC

nosianu wrote: post #212

nonamechicken wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know with 100% certainty that unless I go fight for something like ISIS, India will take me back without any problems. No one else will do that. That's where the country of birth becomes important for me.

> I know with 100% certainty that unless I go fight for something like ISIS, India will take me back without any problems. No one else will do that. It's going off-topic now for the thread, but since you mentioned it: Some European countries do just that. https://www.dw.com/en/over-100-islamic-state-fighters-return... > Authorities believe that 1,060 IS fighters left Germany for Syria or Iraq, of which a third have s…

In general the idea of removing somebody's citizenship for any reason is highly problematic, as it leads to the possibility of a get-out clause around the inalienable rights that citizens are supposed to have.