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Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

danluu.com

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Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#371

Post by criddell »

PinguTS wrote: post #313
dotancohen wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I updated the post. I had no idea that oil changes are now once every two years. On the wife's Subaru I still change the oil every six months, and I remember when the standard was actually every three months. She puts about 10 km on the car during those six months, we live in a hilltop village half an hour drive from a city.

What? Oil change every three month? WTF is wrong with the US industry? The very same cars in Europe will have an oil change every 2 years or so. My Volvo S60 Model 2000 has an oil change every 3 years. There must be something that you get sold on by marketing that is so wrong. BTW. Also a Tesla has oil in their gearbox, even if it is just a single gear integrated into the single unit combined with motor and inverter.…

Volvo recommends an oil change every 16,000 km.

Because everybody drives differently, mileage and time based recommendations aren't the best. Some places will offer to test your used motor oil during a change and will tell you if you waited too long or changed it to early.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#372

Post by dotancohen »

Amezarak wrote: post #305
dotancohen wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like a quality automobile, to bring the discussion closer to the article. For example, a Tesla Model 3 might cost more than a Hyundai I10, but after three years of ownership you've not had to change the oil, fill it with gas, get the tailpipe emissions inspected, possibly see the catalytic converter stolen, etc. And the difference in maintenance only grows from there, when the plugs and timing belt and seals and…

I drive another manufacturer's equivalent of the Hyundai you mention, their lowest end car that they actually quit manufacturing, and I am sure the Hyundai is in the same ballpark. I change the oil about twice a year. Over the past eight years, that has cost me about $480. I have changed the transmission fluid three times. That has cost me about $140. I've changed the air filter a couple times...not very often. Let's…

Thank you for the counterpoint. I concede that my idea of what a modern motor vehicle is is outdated. I'm actually happy to see that things have improved so much.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#373

Post by torginus »

dijit wrote: post #298
bjoli wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two things in my possession that are wonders of engineering. One hair trimmer and one restaurant kitchen blender/kitchen multifunction machine. Both made in 1987 in East Germany. The blender I bought second hand, and it came with a box of original replacement parts and specifications so detailed that I believe I could probably replace the motor if it ever fails (almost 6hp! Take that, Vitamix!). It makes nut b…

is this not the very definition of survivorship bias though? I have things from the 80s that, obviously, have lasted a long time. But I have owned things from that era that have failed and been forgotten about. Incidentally I bought some boots this year that are expected to last (at a minimum) 10 years, and I suspect they would, but I can't know that until 10 years from now. Heirloom quality is probably still a thing…

Not necessarily. I also have an East German blender, that's like 40 years old, and looks like hell, but works perfectly. I bought another one, since the old one was kinda hard to look at. It was a highly recommended somewhat upmarket type from a supposedly reputable brand.

It broke within 2 years..

I took it apart and discovered it was full of plastic gears on load bearing components which predictably got annihilated by wear and tear. The old one had metal ones.

I echo the article's sentiment that while cheap usually means bad, expensive stuff is usually indistinguishable in quality from mass-market stuff nowadays.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#374

Post by PathOfEclipse »

"Meanwhile, in some Asian countries, like Taiwan and Vietnam, people mostly complied with lockdowns when they were instituted, which means that they were able to squash covid in the country when outbreaks happened".

I have a feeling this guy doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to COVID. From Wikipedia: "No lockdowns have been imposed in Taiwan". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Asia

And there's a huge difference between quarantining a small island and quarantining a large country whose leaders purposely don't enforce the borders and actually allowed in people who tested positive for COVID with no enforced quarantining: https://news.yahoo.com/dhs-dropped-40-000-covid-190800213.ht...

You can also read in Wikipedia how the lockdowns in Vietnam ultimately failed, while also heavily disrupting their economy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Vietnam.

The people who said lockdowns would be pointless were right. History has proven it. It's time for people like Dan Luu to move on. There was never any way the world at large was going to be able to organize a meaningful lockdown policy. The lockdowns were a waste and likely caused more deaths than they saved lives.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#375

Post by raverbashing »

ownagefool wrote: post #318
kccqzy wrote: post #242

> An example from another industry: when I worked at a small chip startup, we had in-house capability to do end-to-end chip processing (with the exception of having its own fabs), which is unusual for a small chip startup. When the first wafer of a new design came off of a fab, we'd have the wafer flown to us on a commercial flight, at which point someone would use a wafer saw to cut the wafer into individual chips s…

What if the saw breaks, what if the person who knows how to use the saw leaves? There are good answers to these problems, but I find folks who find comfort in outsourcing assume it's easier for the downstream org solve them. Personal experience suggests it's often a false sense of security, and you often have to have your own experts anyway. Saw the same in software. We won't get budget to patch so let's outsource. T…

> What if the saw breaks, what if the person who knows how to use the saw leaves?

Then you go and fix that as you have the means to do that.

Were it outsourced and you can only wait for the vendor to do it

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#376

Post by Schiendelman »

andi999 wrote: post #322
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I could buy products that just work and don’t break, even if they cost 3x as much, they would pay for themselves with longer lifespans and less wasted productivity.

Historically you shd buy Miele then.

For some products. Even they have some crap (in-wall espresso…)

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#377

Post by markus_zhang »

yrral wrote: post #16

I think it's that you don't notice things that work well. House foundations, light switches, filesystems, silicon manufacturing, water delivery, grocery store logistics, etc etc etc. These are all things that most people never notice because they just work. It doesn't even occur to people day-to-day that these things can fail.

I think you put too much confidence in other engineering fields. They go wrong all the time (you might notice some when purchasing a house) and changes are extremely slow and expensive.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#378

Post by Loughla »

mitchdoogle wrote: post #238
mpalczewski wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to look for non crap, is to check the used value of something. E.g. check swappa. If people are still paying a lot for an item after it is used, usually a good sign. If they are not and you still want it, get it used and save a ton. Another good way, check how much insurance costs. e.g. How much is that extended warranty going to cost on one car vs another. How much is home owners insurance in one neighbo…

Price is not a very good indicator of quality

Especially for older 'thing' you might be looking for. If it is at all collectable, the price will be higher, regardless of quality.

Ice cream makers are one thing I have found that for. White Mountain made a really high quality product, but the used market is obscene, because people collect them apparently (at least in my part of the country).

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#379

Post by Tor3 »

andi999 wrote: post #322
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I could buy products that just work and don’t break, even if they cost 3x as much, they would pay for themselves with longer lifespans and less wasted productivity.

Historically you shd buy Miele then.

I replaced my 21 year old Miele washing machine recently. The solenoid-driven water intake valve broke. It wasn't a part of the machine itself, it was on the water intake tube. But the replacement part was nearly half the price of the brand new replacement Miele washing machine I ended up buying instead. The new one is slightly larger and has higher capacity, and doesn't suffer from a little design problem the original had, so I was ok with getting a new one. But yes, the original washing machine worked exactly as when it was brand new - it was just that intake valve on the tube.

Re: Why is it hard to buy things that work well?

#380

Post by civilized »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #169
Strilanc wrote: post #88

It's pretty depressing how many of the comments are purely answering the title and not discussing the content of the article. In particular, the comments seem mostly focused on consumer product build quality whereas the article is more focused on e.g. businesses trying to outsource something (like same day delivery) and getting a worse result even when they pay more than doing it internally. And the cultural obstacle…

> I will note that I often wish Dan Luu was a bit less apparently-uniformly-confident in some of the statements he writes. He does back up what he says, but he'll use the same tone for something he's seen anecdotally and something he's spent a month personally investigating. Dan Luu is one of my favorite currently-active bloggers. He's obviously a smart person with a good amount of experience in specific areas. Howev…

> He spends a lot of time bragging about arguing with interviewers, dodging questions instead of trying to provide answers, and how he's never written production code that talks to a DB, performs an RPC call, or connects to an API.

I think describing what he's doing as "bragging" is fundamentally misreading him. He's just very honest, regardless of how people will perceive it. And he needs to work in environments where that trait will be perceived positively, because he feels it's not an option to turn it off.

I'm sure that, for people who put up a social front as easily as they breathe, Dan's style can be viewed as simply a more elaborate social front, a form of peacocking that he feels he can get away with because of his technical skill.

It's a weird world we live in, where being honest is viewed as the strangest, most exotic and elaborate conceit.

> he seems incapable of accepting that maybe he's doing something wrong or that he's simply not a good fit for the jobs he applied for. Instead, his implied analysis is that the interviewers are simply wrong, and that they're making a mistake to ask him those questions and eventually decline him.

In the thread you linked, he links another thread (https://twitter.com/danluu/status/1447268693075841024) where his interviewer was wrong. And what's fun about Dan Luu is, he actually cares about answering a question correctly more than he cares about the intense pressure to "play the game" - that is, to conform, be agreeable, and affirm the viewpoint of whoever has power in a situation so that they like him. He wants to work in a position where that tendency is valued. Sadly, it usually isn't.

Personally I don't take it to the extreme he does, but I admire him for doing so. Sometimes there is nothing wrong with you; it is the world that's wrong.

You can adapt to survive in that wrong world, sure, but that doesn't make the observation incorrect.

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