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Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

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Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#371

Post by warner_of_doom »

thraneh wrote: post #313
warner_of_doom wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also playing right into NATO's hands in a way. But, after reading the authors I mentioned closely, I now realize that this is a war for control/negative-control over natural resources (grain, oil, gas, fertilizers, etc.). Also, this is about geostrategic security (anchoring at the Carpathian mountains and Bessarabia Gap). See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNeDtZmpjU And: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If…

This has helped me better understand the strategic significance. Thank you. Edit: As a seeker of answers to the "why", I can't recommend these links enough.

Same here, I too seek out the motive behind actions; otherwise, history is the most boring and unintelligible sequence of events known to man.

I recommend you look into these authors/commentators/analysts: * John Mearsheimer * Noam Chomsky * Vladimir Pozner * Jeffrey Sachs * Zbigniew Brezinski * George Friedman * Peter Zeihan * Peter Hitchens * Gonzalo Lira * Tim Marshall * Robert D Kaplan * Jack F. Matlock Jr * George Kennan * Stephen Cohen * Henry Kissinger

Indeed. NATO/EU expansion is essentially a slow-moving replay of Brest-Litovsk and Barbarossa from the Russian point-of-view. I'm an American but I totally understand why Russia just did what it did. Never forget that Lenin was sent to Russia BY GERMANY for the express purpose of destabilizing Russia during WW1. This is the type of destabilizing regime-change that Russia fears. Their fears are not unfounded if you pay close attention to what the US has done in Ukraine, which is something our media doesn't even cover.

This is just the tip of the iceberg:

* https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-remo...

* https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/4/pandora-papers-ukra...

* https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-r...

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsh9V8UxenI

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK93aawlLKg

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#372

Post by warner_of_doom »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #339
Grustaf wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the purpose of fighting? Have you looked at Russia? ukrainians would like to remain free of totalitarianism and will die trying. They will not accept becoming a vassal state. What is the alternative to fighting? The point is that it seems completely hopeless without direct military help from the West. Looked at Russia, in what sense? I have lived there, so I know what life is like there, but I don't know th…

> Looked at Russia, in what sense? I will respect that you know better than me, an American that would like to see the sights of Russia one day. In the sense that Putin murders/poisons his political opponents and journalists like Navalny & Politkovskaya, tortures and imprisons activists like Magnitsky and Nadya Tolokno. I can sympathize with anyone who would avoid a government responsible for such acts, granting that…

This is just the tip of the iceberg:

* https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-remo...

* https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/4/pandora-papers-ukra...

* https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-r...

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsh9V8UxenI

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK93aawlLKg

I recommend you look into these authors/commentators/analysts: * John Mearsheimer * Noam Chomsky * Vladimir Pozner * Jeffrey Sachs * Zbigniew Brezinski * George Friedman * Peter Zeihan * Peter Hitchens * Gonzalo Lira * Tim Marshall * Robert D Kaplan * Jack F. Matlock Jr * George Kennan * Stephen Cohen * Henry Kissinger

Indeed. NATO/EU expansion is essentially a slow-moving replay of Brest-Litovsk and Barbarossa from the Russian point-of-view. I'm an American but I totally understand why Russia just did what it did. Never forget that Lenin was sent to Russia BY GERMANY for the express purpose of destabilizing Russia during WW1. This is the type of destabilizing regime-change that Russia fears. Their fears are not unfounded if you pay close attention to what the US has done in Ukraine, which is something our media doesn't even cover.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#373

Post by jazzyjackson »

warner_of_doom wrote: post #372
jazzyjackson wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looked at Russia, in what sense? I will respect that you know better than me, an American that would like to see the sights of Russia one day. In the sense that Putin murders/poisons his political opponents and journalists like Navalny & Politkovskaya, tortures and imprisons activists like Magnitsky and Nadya Tolokno. I can sympathize with anyone who would avoid a government responsible for such acts, granting that…

This is just the tip of the iceberg: * https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-remo... * https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/4/pandora-papers-ukra... * https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-r... * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsh9V8UxenI * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK93aawlLKg I recommend you look into these authors/commentators/analysts: * John Mearsheimer * Noam Chom…

Are you replying to me or just spamming links?

I watched the fox news clip with the colonel and find it frankly offensive. All Putin wants is a nuetral Ukraine, Zelensky should just hand over all his weapons?

Tell me, do you believe Ukrainians preferred the government they deposed in 2014 ? That would see them never joining EU, never joining a defence pact to protect from Russian invasion?

I see people fighting for their country, as if they know that if Ukraine is without an army, there will not be a Ukraine for long. I trust their judgement, not that of thinkpieces and fox news guests.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#374

Post by warner_of_doom »

Grustaf wrote: post #357
selfhoster11 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you said something like that to a Polish person during early days of WW2, they would slap you in the face, or worse. You have no right to say something like that. If Ukrainians want to fight until the end, that is a choice they can make.

I'm not saying they "can't make that choice". I'm saying it's a bad idea to make that choice. If Russia tried to invade Sweden, my home country, I would say the same. Resisting an overwhelming force might sound good on paper, but when it's your own country that is being laid waste to it's different. If Finland tried to invade, fighting back would be more attractive. The comparison with Poland and the Nazis is not an…

But, the media told me that Putin is Hitler reincarnated.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#375

Post by warner_of_doom »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #353
Grustaf wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The West is clearly egging the Ukrainians on.

More like, Ukrainians want to fight and the West is sending weapons their way. It's not as much egging on as it is providing a force multiplier.

Zelenskyy is a corrupt puppet. Don't buy the hype. There's much more to this entire saga than the media's letting on to.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#376

Post by tim333 »

warner_of_doom wrote: post #369
dragonwriter wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a geostrategic logic behind where Russia wants their borders positioned. Yes, imperialism usually has a geostrategic logic. What it doesn't have is respect for the right of self-determination. > Your statement applies more to other countries in Europe Except you’ve literally just admitted that it is exactly the driving force for Russia.

> What it doesn't have is respect for the right of self-determination. Did the US have any respect for self-determination in the 2014 putsch it backed in Ukraine?

Well yeah, it backed the people over Russia in Euromaidan. That was kind of the point of the thing.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#377

Post by tim333 »

chakhs wrote: post #342
throwaways85989 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I despise this western-centric view- were only the people in the west are real people, that can make decisions for themselves, and the rest is just pawns for playing a funny great board game. The idea that even a new-born nation, could walk out of the board game and do its own thing is so outrageous to the players, it is not even considered. Well, ukraine just tried that. Its a sovereign nation, and it wanted nothing…

The problem is you're arguing from an idealistic point of view. But in the real world might makes right. Doesn't matter what Ukraine wants if it doesn't have nukes to back it up.

Does that go for the other 90% of countries that don't have nukes? Maybe Russia should take Canada as it's fairly close by and non nuclear?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#378

Post by tim333 »

throwaways85989 wrote: post #161
warner_of_doom wrote: post #38

Seeing this play out in the media reminds me of the Iraq War hysteria in 2003. Completely one-sided coverage, classic war-time propaganda (ghost of kiev), banning Russian arts and paralympians, etc. I've lost all faith in the media. Period. You may think that there is an absolute answer to this situation, but there isn't. I recommend that you study commentators and scholars such as: John Mearsheimer, Zbigniew Brezins…

I despise this western-centric view- were only the people in the west are real people, that can make decisions for themselves, and the rest is just pawns for playing a funny great board game. The idea that even a new-born nation, could walk out of the board game and do its own thing is so outrageous to the players, it is not even considered. Well, ukraine just tried that. Its a sovereign nation, and it wanted nothing…

It's not really western centric so much as military power centric - that only the military powers count and less armed people in the middle are pawns. For example in the 1904 skirmish between Russia and Japan those two powers were arguing over who should control Korea and nearby areas with weak militaries.

It's become a bit passe with the internet and human rights movements and the like - you can't just go militarily occupy the neighbours these days without pissing off a lot of people as Russia is finding just now.

The 1904 thing was quite interesting in the current context. Emperor of Russia Nicholas II thought it would be easy to take out the Japanese navy but they ended up with most of the Russian navy sunk and subsequently the Russian royals got overthrown and replaced by the communists which has led up to what we have now.

It's possible that history will play out in a similar way - Putin thought taking Ukraine would be easy but loses that and then loses power at home and ends up replaced. Perhaps by a normal democracy, looking on the optimistic side.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#379

Post by tim333 »

warner_of_doom wrote: post #253
teachrdan wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Ukraine kill journalists who criticize their government? Does it send assassins who murder political dissidents abroad with polonium? Do they imprison and torture people for being queer? It seems your argument that Ukraine is corrupt and poor creates a false equivalence with Russia. It seems to me that Russia under Putin is far, far worse.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-remo... Zelenskyy is corrupt as they get. Don't buy the SM propaganda.

Your article seems to be "Congress Has Removed a Ban on Funding Neo-Nazis" and not much about Zelensky being corrupt.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#380

Post by tim333 »

rektide wrote: post #212
teachrdan wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Ukraine kill journalists who criticize their government? Does it send assassins who murder political dissidents abroad with polonium? Do they imprison and torture people for being queer? It seems your argument that Ukraine is corrupt and poor creates a false equivalence with Russia. It seems to me that Russia under Putin is far, far worse.

Euromaidan (Nov 2013, leading to the Revolution of Dignity, Feb 2014) seems to be one of the main things that pissed Russia off, that made them fear for their national security. Here's the people of Ukraine, showing hope & trying to cast off the corruption, unwilling to simply swallow the long dark agenda their leaders are pushing them towards. Amazing. Having hope & democracy & people getting better is an existentia…

>made them fear for their national security

I think Putin and friends are more worried about Putin and friends being overthrown. The Russian national security would be fine. Putin on the other hand has killed so many people that he can't allow a democratic takeover without going to jail.

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