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America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

economist.com

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Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#371

COVID was the largest wealth transfer in our generation, from children as young as kindergarten (who will pay prices with the reduced social and IQ growth due to quarantine and school shut downs), millennials and GenZ to boomers.

That's social security and healthcare/housing costs

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#372
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is spending money on the rich considered an investment whereas spending money on the poor is considered welfare? For example, it is clear that investments made in public school education has much higher returns.

> it is clear that investments made in public school education has much higher returns do you have evidence of increasing funding to public education directly resulting in better outcomes in general? obviously better schools are usually better funded, but i can't imagine how throwing money at a bad school would result in better education...

But giving money to corporations will definitely result in better outcomes... Namely that the rich get richer.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#373
I still can't understand why they created this bizarre program through bank lenders and the SBA, when they really only needed to send checks directly to people or employers based on the Social Security records. There was, as usual, a sizable handout to banks, in the form of a 1% processing fee.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#374

Would a [premined, escrowed] stablecoin token make it easier to answer these kinds of Transparency and Accountability questions in regards to government spending and government stimulus funding beyond intra-governmental transfers of real value? Said stablecoin token would be hosted on more or more resilient Distributed Ledger Technologies (DLTs; 'blockchains') with a - indeed more auditable - transaction record speci…

no

What would be better feedback for developing a resilient economy together? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_systems_theory#Fee...

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#375
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we are speaking about the US, the numbers I provided were us specific and anything that is done would be financed via us taxes, I'm pretty confident everyone knows I'm referring to the US as a whole. "realize that the poorest of the USA are richer than many people around the world and should pay their welfare" Why should us taxes subsidize world welfare (not that it already doesn't)?

Of course, when we're talking about a UBI, there are always some geographic distributions of wealth that one might quibble with: from large urban states to rural states. Taxes paying for UBI flowing out of California will exceed UBI flowing into California; taxes paying for UBI flowing out of Wyoming will be dwarfed by UBI flowing into Wyoming. And, further, beyond the balance of transfers in absolute dollars-- $1000…

would be interesting to see if a UBI actually caused more people to move to states like Wyoming and Montana. Many people too poor to actually move (lack of deposit, moving costs, etc.) would actually have the funds to move if they saved ubi for a few months. Leaving a HCOL for a LCOL state with a UBI would be a life changer for people if they were willing to do so.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trillions?

Yes, trillions. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/09/covid-relief-bills-us-has-sp...

That is the total amount spent not the amount that citizens took home.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#377
post #368
post #351

I used to listen to a podcast I enjoyed about a small and rapidly growing tech company in Oregon, someone I had personally met a few years back at a conference - which is where I first learned of the company; they work in the e-commerce space and I enjoyed listening to the founder talk about the trials and tribulations of growing his company; when covid hit, the company grew like gangbusters (like just abut every onl…

So in your opinion it was the companies fault that they didn't purposely leave a competitive advantage on the table while their competition surely utilized it? It seems that you judge from a place of detached ignorance. We are going through a pandemic and that business owner may very well be worried the bottom will fall out any moment and if that owner has employees it is their responsibility to prepare as much as po…

>>So in your opinion it was the companies fault that they didn't purposely leave a competitive advantage on the table while their competition surely utilized it?

Yes, absolutely. People who are making money hands over fist should not be lining up for corporate welfare just because everyone else is.

It's too bad so many people are OK with disgusting behavior - just because 'everyone is doing it'.

How much better could we take care of people that truly needed assistance, if we didn't have to worry about making sure that the large numbers of people who don't actually need the help, weren't also lining up at the trough.

Amazing to me that people will continue to make excuses for rich pr*cks that abuse the system to enrich themselves at everyone else's expense.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#378
post #368
post #351

I used to listen to a podcast I enjoyed about a small and rapidly growing tech company in Oregon, someone I had personally met a few years back at a conference - which is where I first learned of the company; they work in the e-commerce space and I enjoyed listening to the founder talk about the trials and tribulations of growing his company; when covid hit, the company grew like gangbusters (like just abut every onl…

So in your opinion it was the companies fault that they didn't purposely leave a competitive advantage on the table while their competition surely utilized it? It seems that you judge from a place of detached ignorance. We are going through a pandemic and that business owner may very well be worried the bottom will fall out any moment and if that owner has employees it is their responsibility to prepare as much as po…

>>So in your opinion it was the companies fault that they didn't purposely leave a competitive advantage on the table while their competition surely utilized it?

Are you OK with upper middle class and rich people getting in line at 'no questions asked' food banks? even though they don't need the help? taking away food from people that actually need it?

If so, please explain the the difference.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because the tax is only on the price someone would pay for the lot.

Restating the definition does not magically conjure a sensible strategy for arriving at that value.

So far, our comments have boiled down to "Yes you can assess unimproved value of improved land", and "No, you can't, there is no way to get that number separate from the value of improvements."

So I'm going to try to say something different.

1. Here is the article that convinces me it is very possible to assess land separate from improvements. It details several strategies for doing so. Also properties are assessed in these ways already in many places. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/does-georgism-work-par...

2. Accuracy of assessment does not need to be super high for this idea to work. You just need an assessment with the intent of assessing unimproved land. The tax does not need to be literally 100% of unimproved land value, it just has to be a high percentage. Let's say there is a +/- 30% accuracy of unimproved land value assessment. We can have a 70% tax on that assessed value. Some people would in actuality be taxed at 97.5% of land value, and some people at 52.5% of land value. Perhaps the unfairness of this discrepancy is a true downside. However, one could argue the same about property taxes now.

Re: America’s Covid job-saving programme gave most of its cash to the rich

#380
post #60

I know a few upper-middle class small business owners (all non-retail sectors) whose businesses weren't substantially affected by the pandemic, but who basically got a free handout as part of the program. Two mentioned how they were initially hesitant to apply for money, but then worried that if they didn't, their business could take a downturn after it was too late. Then as long as they spent the money on payroll (w…

We felt a bit guilty taking some of the money from the handout, until we saw how much more all the companies around us took. It all got snatched up as quick as companies could adjust their numbers to qualify. While we were affected by a reduction in orders at beginning of the pandemic , we would have survived without layoffs anyway. But we decided to take the money and hold on to it in case the situation got worse. N…

It seems like you have a problem and a solution both staring right at you.
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