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An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

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Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#371

Post by mcguire »

Panzer04 wrote: post #333
dheera wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would public opinion matter if your company wasn't public? IMO it's a beautiful thing if your company can be aligned 100% with customers and not some random idiots that want participation in your company issues without even owning a Tesla let alone an EV. No earnings reports, no SEC wasting your time. Only reason companies (unfortunately) need to go public is the need for upfront capital or early-stage capital th…

The second part is very significant. Many people want to diversify their risk, and public companies allow that. Rather own 10% each of 10 companies than 100% of one risk-wise.

Note that taking 100% of a company has been one of Warren Buffet's activities for decades.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#373

Post by stevenhuang »

Tenoke wrote: post #209
cillian64 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of it like this. If you suddenly owned 100% of Bitcoin, then you wouldn’t actually have anything valuable - nobody would buy it off you. If you suddenly owned 100% of Tesla then you’d be able to extract a lot of value.

If I suddenly own 100% of Tesla the stock would crash. I'll extract some value but it would be a pittance.

That's not how it works.

If you own the entirety of TSLA then you've essentially taken the company private.

Then you can turn around and sell to private equity firms with, say, current market cap as asking price.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#374

Post by Tenoke »

mcguire wrote: post #370
Tenoke wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I suddenly own 100% of Tesla the stock would crash. I'll extract some value but it would be a pittance.

" If I suddenly own 100% of Tesla the stock would crash. " This is a nonsensical statement. If you own 100% of Tesla then it has no stock price. You would also have control of its physical and intellectual assets as well as receiving its current and future revenue streams.

Yes, yes, in theory it has no stock price. In practice if I do want to sell - privately or not - I wouldn't get anywhere as much as the price was beforehand.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#375

Post by epolanski »

benreesman wrote: post #94

Eh 20-ish years ago the shit happening on Island and Archipelago would blow most people’s minds. Undocumented, conditional, non-displayed order types. Routine wash trading. Shear-but-don’t skin multi-venue arbitrage. The ECNs were the Wild West. Smoke-filled dark pools. Island and Arca are NASDAQ and NYSE now. But Ben, US equities have intrinsic value unlike this BTC garbage! Well unless they pay no dividend, have du…

> the useful stuff will stick around

There's none though. The markets and especially crypto lunatics themselves clearly show nobody cares about decentralization.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#376

Post by epolanski »

mcguire wrote: post #366
heavyset_go wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But Ben, US equities have intrinsic value unlike this BTC garbage! Well unless they pay no dividend, have dual-class share structure, and IPO without a profitable quarter. Should the company's assets be liquidated, shareholders are entitled to that value after creditors. If BTC tanks, there is little value to extract from liquidation.

How much of a bath would you take on one share's portion of the assets? Oh, and how many of those assets are tangible?

It's still something, it has a price and value. Crypto assets have only a price.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#377

Post by BlueTemplar »

mcguire wrote: post #364
beloch wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When half of the people responsible for regulating markets are, instead, using insider knowledge to make a killing at day-trading, it's hard to trust the system. So, the natural response is to build a new system that can be made to dance on strings by people you don't even know the identities of. It doesn't exactly seem like progress, does it?

You are assuming the two systems are equivalent.

Ironically a lot of people that would have before criticized Wall Street now seem to be spending more effort criticizing cryptocurrencies ? (Even though they are the same kind of people that created and popularized cryptocurrencies to deal with Wall Street's issues in the first place ?)

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#378

Post by Daishiman »

fleddr wrote: post #330
Daishiman wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no modern economic argument to favor saving over spending. What you're saying runs counter to pretty much all economic theory from any ideological camp you could think of.

Economic theory has run this world into the ground in just a single human lifetime. A system that maximizes consumption is insane.

I'm not seeing how a deflationary currency even addresses this argument.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#379

Post by landemva »

colinmhayes wrote: post #351
landemva wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is crypto-to-crypto. Your earlier comment said there are dirty wallets. How does someone get dirty cash in to that dirty wallet? For example, which bank allows deposit of dirty cash so the bank account holder can then wire the funds to an exchange?

You can have a dirty wallet from crypto that you've gotten illegally. If you are a merchant on a darknet market your wallet is dirty. If you wrote malware and got someone to pay you a ransom you have a dirty wallet. There are basically an infinite number of ways to have a crypto address with significant holdings that the government has "frozen" so that it can't be converted to fiat. Of course there are other strategi…

Oh, so you didn't mean it is great for laundering dirty cash. Maybe cash crimes stopped when NFTs arrived. This is good news for law enforcement because of the public ledger showing all transactions forever.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#380

Post by epolanski »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #148
alecst wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counterpoint would be that what some call the intrinsic value is the expected future share price based on expected future revenues. There might or might not be future revenue for SNAP, but there is no revenue for a digital currency. But I do think digital currency has intrinsic value, in that for now, it affords you anonymity to commit crimes in a way that ordinary currency does not. I’m not happy about it, but thi…

Right, because cash has never afforded anonymity... always good enough for the government agencies. This is an entirely boring and tired trope. How about the simple ability to transfer value across international borders, free of extraneous % fees imposed by unnecessary middlemen? That alone is enough of a use case to justify adoption. Banks have reaped rewards unearned for long enough. Those capable and responsible e…

> Banks have reaped rewards unearned for long enough.

They are getting paid for a service, ridiculously low fees generally. Do you know how much does it costs you an international bank transfer? Between 0 and 0.6% if you're unlucky.

> That alone is enough of a use case to justify adoption.

No, it's not, it's the usual niche use case problem no one I know ever cared for. When was the last time you heard "I want to send money to my aunt in India but those goddamn banks are so expensive!!!!"

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