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Train burglaries in LA

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Re: Train burglaries in LA

#371

Post by bart_spoon »

Someone wrote: post #187
gonehome wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of poor people who are not thieves. I’ve always felt this framing condescends to them. Sure, there’s certainly more incentive to steal at the academic extremes (bread for your starving family), but people raiding trains for packages is something else. There should be police response to this, and people doing it should get charged.

I don’t see anybody arguing that people doing this shouldn’t get charged. I do read people (rightfully, IMO) claiming that societal changes can significantly decrease the number of people doing this. I don’t believe USA has so many people in prison because its population _is_ more criminal than that of other countries.

> I don’t believe USA has so many people in prison because its population _is_ more criminal than that of other countries.

I do. I’ve lived in some foreign countries and have come to realize that culture plays just as much if not more of a role in crime as material conditions. America has some toxic aspects to our culture that contribute to our population being more likely to commit crimes. We are hyper individualist, and more violent across all socioeconomic levels.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#372

Post by macinjosh »

King-Aaron wrote: post #24

> Responsibility for policing the railroad right of way falls on Union Pacific Police... not local agencies like LAPD So is 'Union Pacific Police' just a security company, or do you guys in the US actually have private businesses with their own police? Because that sounds pretty dystopian

A state run police force I am forced to pay for that has qualified immunity sounds a lot more dystopian to me than a private security firm a company hires to protect its business infrastructure.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#373

Post by dmurray »

refurb wrote: post #289
dmurray wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, stealing Epipens and selling them on the black market makes them more accessible compared to than forcing people to pay the retail price. The manufacturer can always make more - they could accept 90% losses due to theft and still sell them profitably, based on the prices they offer in other countries [0]. So if you're going to play the "assault on my health" card, the guys robbing trains are literally Robi…

That’s ridiculous. You think someone is going to buy an Epi-pen off some random dude on the street? Easier to just go to the ER and not pay the bill.

I'd certainly consider buying a stolen/black market/grey market EpiPen at $300 if I needed one and the alternative cost $3000. The shelf life is 13-18 months, so that's a recurring cost, and I'd like to have more than one (perhaps carry one on my person and store one safely at home). I'd look for factory-sealed, tamper-evident packaging.

I'm privileged to be able to even consider spending the $3000 (I don't have severe allergies, so haven't actually made this decision). It's not at all ridiculous that someone on a tighter budget would make the same decision if it was $30 vs $300, and might make compromises on the QA. And "just go to the ER" doesn't cut it: regardless of the cost, that could take hours, while you may only have minutes to spare in the case of anaphylactic shock. You take the injection AND go straight to the ER, it's not an either-or thing.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#374

Post by bart_spoon »

Z0rr0 wrote: post #256
sgjohnson wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is "forced" to steal packages. "The trains are clearly being robbed out of desperation by the poorest citizens." I don't think that's true. I think they are being robbed because it's easy to do so, with a low risk for any consequences. Similarly as to why shoplifting in LA is up. Start shooting at the thieves and see how fast the train robbery trend reverses.

>I think they are being robbed because it's easy to do so, with a low risk for any consequences. Similarly as to why shoplifting in LA is up. Ok, then why aren't you robbing or shoplifting if it's so easy and risk-free? Is it because you have too much to lose if you get caught? My whole point is that if people have a minimal standard of living, the fear of losing it will prevent them from committing crimes much more…

Because they prioritize preventing the damage to society over their own personal gain. The point is that the decision to commit a crime boils down to putting the individual benefits over the harm being inflicted on others, which is why it is naive to say this kind of theft only happens because people’s needs aren’t met. Not only does this imply that all poor people are committing crimes (how could they not, when their needs aren’t met!), but it also implies that crimes aren’t committed among the non-impoverished population, both of which are clearly false.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#375

Post by leeroyjenkins11 »

dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

I would say in large part it's because theft is acceptable in a lot of places. When people rob high end retail in CA, or when places decriminalize retail theft under $999. Sometimes people steal out of necessity, most times they steal out of convenience.

Having a strong culture that treats theft as a shameful act and caring for others is what breeds the culture you describe.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#376

Post by [deleted] »

Thorentis wrote: post #243
kepler1 wrote: post #210

Do you ever think to yourself that we're gradually headed to some dystopia like in the movie Elysium? Where a growing underclass is relegated to a garbage planet while the elites escape to a satellite world? Or at least parts of our planet? I'm not even faulting the elites for it really -- how are you, in a non-authoritarian society, supposed to handle when basic services are under attack and can't effectively discip…

Raising children to respect the rule of law used to be considered important. Now many would consider it brainwashing.

[deleted]

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#377

Post by ohCh6zos »

vondur wrote: post #6
Ansil849 wrote: post #5

I don't really understand what is happening here. Why is the ground completely covered in packages? Do thieves just break into the passing train compartments and start throwing out packages?

They open things up, take what they want, and dispose of the rest.

This seems like a problem that armed guards would fix pretty quickly.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#378

Post by saberdancer »

paganel wrote: post #100

That's one of the main reasons why driverless lorries will never be a thing. Unless you accompany each one of them by a weaponised mini-drone, Robocop-style, that is.

But it doesn't stop us from using trains that get broken into? I doubt it is an important reason. Plus, driverless lorry can just keep on driving to their destination or a safe refueling yard.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#380

Post by glenda »

This is visually shocking, but the sheer amount of money taken from workers by wage theft eclipses this issue completely. Theft is normalized at all levels of American society.
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