More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years • Hacker News Board

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#371

Post by ModernMech » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

lapsedacademic wrote: post #357

granshaw wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the social stigma of not having a college degree. Not sure how to fix that

> the social stigma of not having a college degree People have been saying this for decades, but is it still really a thing? Perhaps on the coasts? If you're in a small or mid-sized city in the midwest or the south, it's almost exactly the opposite...

It’s not so much a social stigma as it is different socialization. People who went to college use the experience to relate to one another long into adulthood.

More than anything that’s why students go to college (source: college students).

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#372

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

xhkkffbf wrote: post #218

standardUser wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public schools average about $10k per year for in-state students. That's a far cry from the $25k-$50k per year people tend to quote when arguing against the cost of college. How important that difference is depends on which state a student lives in. In California there are literally dozens of options including several prestigious ones, whereas many states only have a couple of middling schools to choose from, and out…

You're thinking of 20 years ago. Most state schools are easily $20k for in state students once you add in the room and board. Then they try to get $50k from the out-of-staters. Top flight state schools like Michigan, Cal Berkeley and Cornell start at $75k+ for out-of-staters. Of course financial aid does enter the picture for many students.

[deleted]

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#373

Post by hallway_monitor » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #226

ChicagoDave wrote: post #28

I have 3 college-aged kids and one nearly there. Their universal concern is the cost. It has become prohibitive. Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. They were dead wrong, especially given the horrendously predatory loans backed by the government and barred from bankruptcy. If we fix the college financial system, enrollment would likely skyrocket.

> Their universal concern is the cost. I have a senior in high school right now and although I think you're right - he's concerned about a potential quarter-million dollar tuition bill before this whole thing is over - he's also concerned about the whole selectivity of it all. From the outside looking in, you never know what's important and what's not. He has this feeling (and I'm not sure I can dispute it) that the…

> give up and go into a trade

Exactly this, without the "give up" part. Why is going into a trade giving up? It's choosing a different path than the one that has been shoved down all our throats like it is the only respectable option. University is not for everyone, and not everyone can go there. There's simply not enough room.

I think going into trades is what I want my son to do. I love Mike Rowe's thoughts on this - you can make excellent money, get started fast and be working for yourself by the time you would get a precious 4-year degree. And trades are in serious need of new people; seems like a great opportunity.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#374

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

ativzzz wrote: post #364

lthornberry wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two biggest drivers are 1) massive declines in public support (for public universities, obviously) and 2) more administrators. Much of the growth in administration is driven by a significant rise in the costs to comply with federal regulation. Those regulations are not bad--it's the cost of complying with things like disability laws, Title IX, etc--but they require collecting and reporting significant amounts of data…

> Much of the growth in administration is driven by a significant rise in the costs to comply with federal regulation. Those regulations are not bad Similar things happen in healthcare. My SO works in pharma and the amount of red tape they are required to navigate significantly increases the complexity of their administrative work and decreases the cost-efficiency of their business, partially passing on the costs to…

Also, prices aren't visible before hand, so it is more difficult for price competition to work.

Also, medical profession trade unions/cartels (aka AMA) constricting the labor market for medical work.

These things probably could actually be resolved by governmental regulation.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#375

Post by darkstar999 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

greedo wrote: post #157

rootusrootus wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatively, yes, I believe so. But Oregon State still tells me to budget 30K/year for a resident undergrad. About half of that is living expenses, half is school.

I don't understand how we've accepted $30k/year as relatively affordable...

That's residence pricing, so:

$1250 a month housing

$1250 a month on education and staff

The numbers aren't crazy with the housing prices we're experiencing right now.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#376

Post by starwind » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #338

Most comments here are completely missing why this is happening now. Students don’t want to pay tens of thousands of dollars for remote learning. They could watch Khan Academy videos instead for free, and they’d be better quality.

Bingo. If I graduated in the last two years, I would have gone to work at a grocery store while taking a couple core classes online while I waited for colleges to get back to normal

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#377

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #356

granshaw wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the social stigma of not having a college degree. Not sure how to fix that

These aren't colleges problem. US institutions are 300 years old, they will survive this 60 year old meme, and go back to being meeting spots for the well-money and influential who also become the learned population.

[deleted]

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#378

Post by kodah » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

lapsedacademic wrote: post #357

granshaw wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the social stigma of not having a college degree. Not sure how to fix that

> the social stigma of not having a college degree People have been saying this for decades, but is it still really a thing? Perhaps on the coasts? If you're in a small or mid-sized city in the midwest or the south, it's almost exactly the opposite...

It absolutely is but it depends on the field. My first few years in software were filled with questions like, "Why didn't you finish?" We also continue to interview in ways that are more accommodating for college graduates and attendees, regardless of whether it's needed or not.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#379

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #361

indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

There aren't colleges problem. Its coincidence that for the last 60 years people felt like they needed college, while colleges insist that people want to be there for obscure higher education for the sake of pursuing obscure higher education. Turns out this was true for hundreds of years before inclusion was even a concept, and will exist for the next hundreds of years as people find another option.

[deleted]

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#380

Post by sosuke » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

_jal wrote: post #219

VikingCoder wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what I don't get - Where the hell is the money _going_? Are Colleges and Universities pocketing the money? Are they publicly traded and distributing dividends? Are they building rockets? I know some of it goes back to financial aid, and some goes to football coaches... But we're talking about so much freaking money, and I just can't visualize where it's going.

Salary of full-time faculty at American colleges and universities: 1970-71: $81,798 2018-19: $88,703 Mean salary of American college and university presidents in 1983: $160,640 (2018 dollars). Median compensation of private college and university presidents in 2018: $668,000. Median compensation of public college and university presidents in 2019: $495,808 More, and primary source links: https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyb…

nvm