Does Georgism work? Is land a big deal? • Hacker News Board

Re: Does Georgism work? Is land a big deal?

#371

Post by CRConrad » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 6:45 AM UTC

Kaotique wrote: post #252

MrPowers wrote: post #7

I'm not a huge fan of how deadweight loss is defined in the article: > virtually all economists agree that land value tax has zero "deadweight loss"–a fancy word for a drag on the economy that makes certain activities no longer profitable Property taxes tax the land + the building. Building taxes are complicated to assess. They require tax assessments, appraisers, tax code, accountants to compute depreciation schedul…

I was recently in Egypt and they have a tax on finished buildings. So naturally no building is ever finished. It is a very weird sight that 90% of the buildings don't have windows and uncompleted roofs.

Used to be the same in Greece, AFAIK.

Re: Does Georgism work? Is land a big deal?

#372

Post by CRConrad » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 7:36 AM UTC

hellbannedguy wrote: post #119

chrismcb wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I buy a hamburger should the sales tax depend on my wealth? The property tax should be based on the value of the property, period. If you want to tax mythical wealth do it via some other means. And whether the person owns the property outright or borrowed money shouldn't have any bearing on the value of the tax.

I have felt for awhile societal fees/fines should be tied to income. A wealthy man gets a $270 red light ticket. (This is the one where turning right on a red light is illegial. It seems like they arbitrarily decide which intersection to enforce?). The wealthy man casually mentions it over din din. Goes to sleep, and has the help drive his spawn to private schools. Yea--I live in a county filled with rich people, and…

> I believe they are trying this in Sweden?)

No... They aren't "trying" anything; it's been standard practice for decades, probably over half a century. Not just for speeding tickets, but many fines in general. And not just Sweden, but most of the Nordic countries, plus Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine

Re: Does Georgism work? Is land a big deal?

#373

Post by neilwilson » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

Qub3d wrote: post #370

neilwilson wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the fixed amount of money idea. Money isn't an IOU pointing to an underlying physical wealth. It is wealth in its own terms that is created by government out of nothing based solely upon its future ability to tax. Even some bank money is secured on future income streams, although that is mostly discounting physical collateral. There isn't a one-to-one mapping between money and stuff. Never has been. "You're m…

> It is wealth in its own terms that is created by government out of nothing based solely upon its future ability to tax. The units may vary, but the value remains the same. You get more dollars, but they are worth less, as the purchasing power parity is diluted. See: 6.8% inflation this year. > So you eliminate that by forcing things to be rented out and used, or they will be confiscated. I'm confused. I genuinely t…

"The units may vary, but the value remains the same. You get more dollars, but they are worth less, as the purchasing power parity is diluted. See: 6.8% inflation this year."

Nope. Supply side issue. Move from service purchase to goods. Only neoliberals believe inflation is always money related.

Using that line also suggests you believe in equilibrium - another notion that we've known is nonsense since at least the 1930s.

"economically rational person"

There are no economically rational persons. There are just human beings. Surely the last year has given you an indication that rational is the last thing we are.

"I'm trying to engage you in good faith[0]."

You'll need to try harder. You don't 'engage in good faith' by trying to mind read and put words in people's mouths.

Re: Does Georgism work? Is land a big deal?

#374

Post by wrycoder » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

i_haz_rabies wrote: post #282

wrycoder wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fly over the US and observe that the place is mostly empty. Land is not the problem. Lack of economic opportunity and initiative are the problems.

It's almost entirely "used." The places that look "empty" are pasture, fields, private timberland and national parks, and the few remaining pockets of actual nature should probably be left the hell alone.

There are ten thousand small towns (like, say, Bird Island) whose population has been declining for decades, due to lack of economic opportunity. You don’t have to choose between a city and an isolated home.

Re: Does Georgism work? Is land a big deal?

#375

Post by wrycoder » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

PickledHotdog wrote: post #271

wrycoder wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is? It’s “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”, not life, and purported happiness under socialism, where you are assigned housing and a job. Housing was guaranteed in the old Soviet Union, but if you didn’t cooperate, the housing was in the gulag.

Your daily reminder that not everyone on the internet lives in the United States

Yes, those values are universal, unless the powers that be manage to convince people otherwise.