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Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

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Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#371
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real moral principle comes from giving the money you earned...back to Facebook? So that Facebook can be richer? Maybe think for five seconds before being an amateur moral philosopher in public, with other people's money, next time. You don't seem to be very good at it.

he can donate them to a charity dealing with children mental health issues those developers consciously act against their fellow men. should they get to spend their blood money? the op is asking serious question, its easy to steal some money and then say “oh i was wrong, i am not gonna steal anymore”

If you make the barrier to doing the right thing too high then less people will do the right thing. Would you rather someone stopped doing the wrong thing and kept their "blood money" or just kept doing the wrong thing?

its easy to steal some money and then say “oh i was wrong, i am not gonna steal anymore”

Good! We want it to be easy for people to stop stealing.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#372
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing Karat interviews for about three years and it's been incredible for my mental health. The work is extremely flexible and there is nothing to worry about when you're not working (I dread deadlines and I'm neurotic enough to never manage a good WLB at a regular SWE gig). The compensation is also pretty good. Apply on their website if interested ( https://karat.com/ ) or hit me up at my username at googl…

"Build global technical talent acquisition operations" Why they think this dehumanising language is okay? It reeks of modern slavery.

Human resources beg to differ ;)

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You say "free choice" like companies are just throwing out job offers for free. Not for free, you still have to honestly work there. You get salary for value you provide. In general companies set up hiring processes with intention to hire people. (I know this sounds like a heresy to some ears here on HN). They interviews are set up with intention to hire people while but also filter out people who will not be produ…

> You get salary for value you provide. Salaries are not tied to value, otherwise developers would be making 7-8 digits not 5-6. Salaries are determined by "market rate" which is a synonym for market fixing. It does not matter what value you provide, only matters how low you will agree to get paid.

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Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that Ford only hires people that have only bought Ford all their lives? They check your car on the way to the interview and if it's not Ford you're automatically DQ'd? How would that work being a new hire at Tesla considering that they probably pay a lot of folks less than is required to own one? Cars, appliances, housing, fuel & energy, food, etc. Huge, huge swaths of the economy don't require brand loy…

A better analogy would be if you refused to even go to fords website, or if during a company event, you refused to even step foot in a ford car that drove you somewhere.

I don't have a problem using it at work if they give me a work account that isn't publicly visible. It's more akin to being forced to give up your private vehicle and use the company car but for everything. So even when you need a van... Nope you're stuck with a moped.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#375
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Build global technical talent acquisition operations" Why they think this dehumanising language is okay? It reeks of modern slavery.

Human resources beg to differ ;)

"We see workers as assets!"

- Proud slave trader

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. This might be more indicative of your bubble than anything. Facebook isn’t having a hard time hiring, despite whatever the headlines are trying to imply. There will always be a steady stream of applicants for high paying FAANG jobs. Being able to choose exactly which ultra-high-paying tech job you take or being able to wal…

Curious if you'd contradict recent coverage corroborating reports that FB isn't hitting hiring targets? https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recr...

From the article:

> Facebook's hiring problems are far from unique. Tech industry surveys indicate that talent shortages and hiring difficulties for engineers and developers are among the biggest concerns for companies right now, and the labor market has grown exceedingly tight across almost every sector in the United States over the last year.

It's possible that Facebook is doing worse than other tech companies, but the article doesn't go into that.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#377
post #348
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are these candidates truly incapable of doing the job, or are the understanding of what the job entails misunderstood by everyone involved? On the other hand, is something wrong in how software engineers are educated to cause this surplus of incompetents? Does there need to be better training in this industry? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Pretty confident that the lack of in-house training has been mostly facilitated by…

I wanted to say that this echoes my experience perfectly. After interviewing several hundreds of people, two surprising things stood out: - a large percentage of technical applicants cannot program even in languages where they claim multiple years of work experience - this holds true for non-technical applicants too I think this is a combination of poor applicants being overrepresented in the applicant pool (good one…

I am interviewing candidates a lot (I would say on average 1-2 per week for the past 20 years).

At least in case of software development jobs I think there is couple additional factors:

- people who are absolutely unable to do it but have strong desire to get well paying job regardless. I have actually seen this work. Ie. a person that can't program at all be called a principal developer and for years successfully hide the fact she can't program anything more complex than a simple loop.

- young people who tend to completely mistake what the job is about. They think software development is about coding when it actually is about building stuff and coding is just one tool to do it.

- people overpromoted very quickly (most likely to keep them and or avoid salary raise), having very unrealistic expectations. A lot of candidates I am getting are calling themselves senior developers even though they have 1-3 years of experience and are still learning to program. And have no real world experience beside 1-2 projects they worked for. They could potentially become better developers in future. But they are impatient with their careers and are skipping the part where they should be getting experience.

- people who cod do it but don't care. They don't care about development but are intelligent enough and want good salary. The issue is, people do not learn things well if they don't care about them. Halfhearted effort at learning results in mediocre results. In my lifetime I think I saw only a single good developer who did not care about development but he was such a professional trooper that he forced himself to do it well by sheer power of his will.

As to working for the same company for 30+ years, I got to know some people who worked 20+. They usually don't stay in development job and are getting promoted thus removing themselves from the developer candidate pool.

I also don't think it is healthy for your experience nowadays to stay in one place for so long. I think having varied development experience, seeing different kinds of projects with different kinds of abnormalities, is important to be able to understand what is going on in your project on a larger scale. And this is important if you want to advance to something like tech lead or an architect.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#378
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash in, cash out. Resume is a trail though.

Has there ever been any instance of someone being turned down for a job because they had FB on their resume? I see this sentiment pop up a lot on HN but when it comes down to it you could always explain it away with “it was my only offer at the time and I had crushing student debt and/or medical expenses to take of”. If someone has moral qualms about working at FB that’s a different issue but the whole “don’t want to…

I really don't think anyone in our industry is holding regular Facebook employees responsible for any issues with Facebook. People who worked there are still regarded as very competent.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#379

I would guess people evaluate their job on money/work/stink axes. All of FAANG pays well, so what's left is whether the work is interesting/important/fulfilling and whether the company has integrity/evil issues. Eg you might think F1 has interesting problems despite glorifying fossil fuel cars, or you might think drones are technically challenging despite being used to kill people. Loads of people become nurses and t…

Bay area RNs aren't as poorly paid as you imagine.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You say "free choice" like companies are just throwing out job offers for free. Not for free, you still have to honestly work there. You get salary for value you provide. In general companies set up hiring processes with intention to hire people. (I know this sounds like a heresy to some ears here on HN). They interviews are set up with intention to hire people while but also filter out people who will not be produ…

> The issue is that, sadly, unfortunately, a lot of candidates simply can't do the job. And, tragically, they don't even understand how bad they are and they apply to tens if not hundreds of places making them overrepresented in the candidates' pool. How did it come to this? You don't see this in other engineering industries. There's not a ton of incapable civil engineers bouncing from interview to interview. You don…

I have interviewed hundreds of candidates and worked for many projects over past 20 years.

> Are these candidates truly incapable of doing the job, or are the understanding of what the job entails misunderstood by everyone involved?

Yes. There is a lot of candidates who utterly incapable of doing their job.

Let me share a story.

I remember one day I wanted to pass driver's licence exam here in Warsaw, Poland. Poland is known for having one of the most difficult exams in the world.

There was a group of people standing there that seemed to be already knowing each other. One new person came, greeted them and said they just blew the exam. So they ask him "Where did the guy fail you?". It is difficult to translate, but the assumption in the question was that it was the examiner's decision rather than examinee's fault. Then I learned that he made some stupid mistake and that this is 25th attempt at the exam. Then they started discussion about how unfair entire process is and how impossible it is to pass it.

I went and passed on the first try because I have honestly prepared.

It is the same with software development. A lot of people just keep complaining and complaining about unfairness of it while they are doing absolutely nothing to get better and effectively have the same level of competence as the people in the story. And all the while they also earn a comparatively very good salary (at least here in Poland if you are software developer for a foreign company you are already getting more than average salary that most non-developers need many years to achieve).

My every other interview is a person that cannot answer any of the questions I give and then, can't write a simple piece of code I ask them to.

It is possible that a small percentage of these people are truly stressed and I try to employ stress relief tactics to help this on an interview.

But I honestly believe most of these people simply can't program.

What is even more interesting is that these people come mainly for senior development jobs (I don't interview junior developers) and that they come through agencies that supposedly screen them and some even hire them and bring them forward as contractors.

> Sounds like an extreme outlier. Even companies like Google who are notorious for having long drawn out interview processes mostly just have long wait times in between rounds and recruiter calls. They don't involve 24 hours of talking to Googlers.

I summed up the actual length of zoom meetings I had and it added to more than 24 hours. Yes, I am an outlier. But it still does not change the fact that I was looking to change jobs and was willing to go through a lengthy process (actually it was fun talking to intelligent people and I wouldn't mind even if I did not get the job).

For me, personally, I am happy to have more time to convince the interviewers that I am the right guy for the job and my good first impression is not just a fluke. The more time I spend on the discussion the better starting point for negotiation I have.

I assume that if they spent a lot of time talking to me and are very happy with my answers they would be willing to pay more than if I was just random person off the street that just lucked out giving couple good answers on a very short interview.

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