Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times • Hacker News Board

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#371

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

nescioquid wrote: post #367

lotsofpulp wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Again, I fail to see the legitimacy of a regime in which I must either pay a for-profit corporation for the privilege of preventing my doctor from doing what is in my own best interest or be wealthy enough to pay everything out of pocket. The "legitimacy" lies in the fact that that is what was politically possible to accomplish. I put legitimacy in quotes because I assume you mean legitimate in the context of some t…

> The "legitimacy" lies in the fact that that is what was politically possible to accomplish. Regulatory capture[0] narrowed the possible to only solutions involving for-profit health insurance corporations. If you don't find a form of corruption to be of interest here, I'd be especially interested to know why. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

I can see it being possible to have had some effect, but I do not see having been a major force. As far as I remember, Republicans did not want to expand access to healthcare at all if you did not already have it due to being very poor or old. Many Democrats wanted to expand taxpayer funded healthcare, but they did not have the numbers to get it passed.

Hence a compromise had to be reached. Getting taxpayer funded healthcare administered by the federal government simply was not an option, and I have not seen evidence that it was because the health insurance business was lobbying every Republican.

What I find more likely is that the more complex you make a system, the more you can engage in price discrimination via price obfuscation. A straight taxpayer funded healthcare option would have immediately impacted the bottom line, since government expenditures visibly go up, and would not allow a way to discriminate to those who receive the healthcare.

The compromise, however, allows for all sorts of games to be played. Such as allocating more and better healthcare to older people in comparison to poorer people. This is accomplished simply by having different reimbursement polices in Medicare (old people, strong voting power) and Medicaid (poor people, weak voting power). Medicaid is also further broken down into being administer 50 different ways by 50 different states.

Then you have employer self insured plans doing things the way they like, and employer subsidize plans doing things the way they like, and church plans that do not even provide healthcare. Basically, a way to expand healthcare in a way that still disproportionally allocates healthcare to richer and/or more politically influential people, but helping the others a little bit.

At least we got the metal levels and healthcare.gov out of ACA so there is some ability to compare insurance products.

And at the end of the day, even if you took away the cut that MCOs take for administering all this healthcare, it would mostly save around 5% to 10% (the profit margin plus savings from redundancies). MCOs currently pay out 75% to 80% of all premiums, and profit 5% or less, which leaves 15% to 20%, but the government would have to duplicate many of the functions of the MCO.

https://www.kff.org/private-insurance/issue-brief/data-note-...

Even in a taxpayer funded scenario, I would bet the doctor is going to have to get approval from the system to provide a treatment above a certain cost.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#372

Post by capableweb » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

chrisbennet wrote: post #91

capableweb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear hear! Cars and technology has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to safety. For example, I recently changed from Android to iOS for a better driving experience (I thought) since Android Auto was a bit laggy. While CarPlay is more fluid seemingly (which could also be from the hardware upgrade), what's worse is the UX downgrade that happen when I went from Android Auto to CarPlay. I have a million of example…

I use Waze (on the iPhone) and it doesn't have that problem.

I normally use both Waze and Google Maps, have this problem happening all the time, although it was a long time ago I drove now so maybe got fixed in the last month or so? I have a iPhone 12 Mini if that bears any difference.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#373

Post by matheusmoreira » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #323

matheusmoreira wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maximizing insurance based revenue That seems to be the state of US healthcare unfortunately. What used to be an ethical doctor-pactient relationship has turned into a doctor-insurance-patient monstrosity. Doctors actually have limited autonomy. They can't always do what's best for the patient, only what the insurance company agrees with.

The patient and doctor are free to negotiate a deal that avoids third parties such as the insurance company. The patient chooses to hire an insurance company (better labeled a "managed care organization") to manage their care, because they do not know what they are buying, or how much it should cost. >They can't always do what's best for the patient, only what the insurance company agrees with. Because that is what t…

> Because that is what the patient can afford.

The whole point of these things is to get them to pay for the costs of whatever the patient needs. These needs are determined by their doctor. If they're not paying, they have no reason to exist.

Not being able to help people because of lack of resources is one thing. These companies hire experts and pay them bonuses every time they find some loophole they can use to get out of their obligation.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#374

Post by matheusmoreira » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #356

nescioquid wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> They can't always do what's best for the patient, only what the insurance company agrees with. > Because that is what the patient can afford. What is the point of paying for insurance, then? Nothing legitimizes for-profit insurance companies having any role or prerogative in health care, other than the status quo.

The point of insurance is to protect against unaffordable losses. An insurance business only works if the losses are, by and large, randomly distributed and unexpected. The more predictable the losses, the more an insurance offering resembles a payment plan where you are simply setting aside money with a third party to save for the eventual loss. This is because as losses become more probable, the insurance company h…

> In fact, quite a few of the stipulations of ACA make health insurance premiums explicitly a tax from the young/healthy to the old/sick.

Why not make it official then? Why not end this "insurance" thing and start funding hospitals with taxpayer money? The US is absolutely rich enough to do it.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#375

Post by danudey » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 9:54 PM UTC

caymanjim wrote: post #140

I have a semi-related anecdote about surprises from devices. I use a CPAP. After a year, I went back to the doctor for a followup, and was asked to bring the SD card so they could review the data it collects. The device records the times and duration of use, various settings, and some metrics on breathing (apnea events, etc). I knew it recorded this stuff on an SD card. I brought the card to the appointment, but the…

I was made aware of this feature on my CPAP machine, though it was only mentioned in passing. I'm not super crazy about sending the data to the manufacturer, but I do very much like having it available to my sleep therapist.

As an example: recently, I started snoring more and more, though I didn't realize the extent of it until my wife told me that she couldn't sleep at all the night before. Concerned, I called my sleep therapist, and they brought up my file, looked at the data, and made an adjustment to the settings (I presume the pressure) right there while I was on the phone. The next night, my wife and I both slept great.

That said, I wasn't given the explicit choice to opt in or to opt out, and while I would have chosen to opt in, I'd wager there are a ton of people out there just like you who would be very upset to know that their sleep patterns are being sent to another company (or anywhere, really) without their consent.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#376

Post by danudey » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

horsawlarway wrote: post #181

caymanjim wrote: post #140

I have a semi-related anecdote about surprises from devices. I use a CPAP. After a year, I went back to the doctor for a followup, and was asked to bring the SD card so they could review the data it collects. The device records the times and duration of use, various settings, and some metrics on breathing (apnea events, etc). I knew it recorded this stuff on an SD card. I brought the card to the appointment, but the…

I agree that this is both invasive and a huge violation. My wife had pretty severe sleep apnea in the third trimester of her pregnancy, two experiences that make me think this practice needs to be nuked from orbit. 1. We properly read the manual for the device and adjusted the pressure so that it didn't cause problems with burping/ingesting air during sleep. Tissue gets softer in women as they near birth and the body…

Who is "they" in this case? The manufacturer? Your insurance? The doctor? Startlingly bullshit behaviour from them regardless, but I'm curious.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#377

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #374

lotsofpulp wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of insurance is to protect against unaffordable losses. An insurance business only works if the losses are, by and large, randomly distributed and unexpected. The more predictable the losses, the more an insurance offering resembles a payment plan where you are simply setting aside money with a third party to save for the eventual loss. This is because as losses become more probable, the insurance company h…

> In fact, quite a few of the stipulations of ACA make health insurance premiums explicitly a tax from the young/healthy to the old/sick. Why not make it official then? Why not end this "insurance" thing and start funding hospitals with taxpayer money? The US is absolutely rich enough to do it.

Because sufficient number of legislators in the US congress would not vote for it back in 2010, hence this compromised situation.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#378

Post by matheusmoreira » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 10:04 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #371

nescioquid wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "legitimacy" lies in the fact that that is what was politically possible to accomplish. Regulatory capture[0] narrowed the possible to only solutions involving for-profit health insurance corporations. If you don't find a form of corruption to be of interest here, I'd be especially interested to know why. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

I can see it being possible to have had some effect, but I do not see having been a major force. As far as I remember, Republicans did not want to expand access to healthcare at all if you did not already have it due to being very poor or old. Many Democrats wanted to expand taxpayer funded healthcare, but they did not have the numbers to get it passed. Hence a compromise had to be reached. Getting taxpayer funded he…

> Even in a taxpayer funded scenario, I would bet the doctor is going to have to get approval from the system to provide a treatment above a certain cost.

That happens due to scarce resources. Most often in developing countries. Where I live, there are places doctors work at that barely have water for them to wash their hands. Ordering an MRI is a big deal.

I refuse to believe this would ever be a problem for the US.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#379

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 10:05 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #373

lotsofpulp wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The patient and doctor are free to negotiate a deal that avoids third parties such as the insurance company. The patient chooses to hire an insurance company (better labeled a "managed care organization") to manage their care, because they do not know what they are buying, or how much it should cost. >They can't always do what's best for the patient, only what the insurance company agrees with. Because that is what t…

> Because that is what the patient can afford. The whole point of these things is to get them to pay for the costs of whatever the patient needs. These needs are determined by their doctor. If they're not paying, they have no reason to exist. Not being able to help people because of lack of resources is one thing. These companies hire experts and pay them bonuses every time they find some loophole they can use to get…

>The whole point of these things is to get them to pay for the costs of whatever the patient needs. These needs are determined by their doctor. If they're not paying, they have no reason to exist.

Per the payer's terms, whether it be government or employer or insurance company, their needs are not necessarily solely determined by a single doctor. There are teams of doctors and pharmacists at CMS, state Medicaid organizations, and insurance companies that create protocol for various courses of treatment in order to prevent mistakes, waste, and fraud.

>These companies hire experts and pay them bonuses every time they find some loophole they can use to get out of their obligation.

Source? It seems odd that a company that earns more money if it spends more on healthcare would have an incentive to look for loopholes. Of course, they have an incentive to not spend frivolously to maintain competitive prices.

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/medical-loss-ratio-MLR/

But they are all using the same protocols that the government uses anyway (via CMS), since the government contracts with the same MCOs to administer taxpayer funded healthcare for 40%+ of Americans via Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#380

Post by tzs » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

genewitch wrote: post #349

beervirus wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes. All unencrypted I assume?

It's in an ISM band, I can't remember the rules, I think encryption is allowed (like, WPA) but for thermometers and stuff why bother? 99% of 433mhz (and 800/900 mhz) stuff is unidirectional (sensor to sensee), so where's the harm in some 100mW transmitter?

The only thing I've seen that appears to be encrypted is something rtl_433 identifies as a "Microchip-HCS200", which seems likely to be a device using this chip [1] for remote keyless entry systems.

The encryption appears to be for authentication not secrecy. The button status is in an unencrypted portion of the message.

Of course there may be plenty of sensors out there that fully encrypt in which case rtl_433 would probably not have decoders for them and so I would not see them at all.

[1] https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/HCS200