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Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

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Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#371

Post by raxxorrax »

elzbardico wrote: post #17
koolba wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t a brain drain lead to even dumber laws?

Other kind of dumb laws. Authoritaranism is a special kind of dumbness historically associated with really smart people.

Authoritarianism is an expression of fear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_personality

disclaimer: I distance myself from the groups currently associated with these schools of thought. I also think the English version of this article is lacks scientific savoir faire.

The gender inequality part is empirically and historically wrong.

edit: To be honest the whole article is trash, better read it here (Psychological theory):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#372

Post by narrator »

cookie_monsta wrote: post #292
narrator wrote: post #166

Something really bizarre and unsettling is happening in Australia. Despite a small number of covid deaths, they have by far the most totalitarian lockdowns and are pursuing some of the most extreme social control measures of any country on earth. They are building quarantine imprisonment camps, doing national manhunts for people who aren't quarantining, arresting people for anti-government speech, using the military…

Hyperbole, mostly Versions of all of those things exist, but not in the way you describe them.

I have been reading message boards where Aussies are saying they are no longer allowed to leave the country for any reason. Isn't that like the old Soviet Union and North Korea?

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#373

Post by jliptzin »

phito wrote: post #186
jliptzin wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s nothing special anyway, not worth the long flight

Nothing special??? It has some of the most diverse and crazy flora and fauna in the world...

I can watch documentaries in 4K about Australia’s flora and fauna and get 95% of the benefit without being treated like a drug lord at a border crossing on the way

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#374

Post by xenophonf »

dang wrote: post #340
xenophonf wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be coy. You're talking about the violent overthrow of the government. And you know what? If you live in any one of the western liberal democracies, this response is bullshit and you know it. In a democracy, the government is _you_ and the _people around you_, and we have all kinds of legal defenses against wanna-be autocrats: - speeches - rallies - op-eds - letters - phone calls - commercials - campaign contrib…

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar like this. It's not what the site is for. The GP comment wasn't substantive either but the idea, when replying, is to move further away from hell, not jump into it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I stand by my comments. I am all for a call to action in the face of illiberal governance, but my correspondent made an unsubtle appeal to political violence. That is wrong.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#375

Post by cookie_monsta »

narrator wrote: post #372
cookie_monsta wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyperbole, mostly Versions of all of those things exist, but not in the way you describe them.

I have been reading message boards where Aussies are saying they are no longer allowed to leave the country for any reason. Isn't that like the old Soviet Union and North Korea?

There are exemptions to the travel restrictions[1]

So "not allowed to leave for any reason" is hyperbole. It has a grain of truth but like the other things on your list is a gross exaggeration.

It's almost as if you shouldn't take everything you read online at face value

[1] https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#376

Post by vayeate »

8372050 wrote: post #317
dang wrote: post #207

Recent and related: Australian Police get online account takeover, data disruption powers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28364140 - Aug 2021 (77 comments) ‘Extraordinary’ hacking powers pass Australian Parliament - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28311722 - Aug 2021 (212 comments) Australia is becoming a surveillance state - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28139048 - Aug 2021 (423 comments)

418 votes submitted 3 hours ago and the story can't be found on the front page The top commenter is throwaway created an hour ago Curious how ranking works on HN. If that hasn't been answered already.

i recommend using hckrnews.com as your front page for many reasons, including this one

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#377

Post by maerF0x0 »

hatware wrote: post #323
maerF0x0 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but like besides a reference, is there something you'd suggest as an action? (which represents taking the redpill)

The "Red-pill" in the Matrix signifies an action which one cannot go back on. It is an action which requires the user to shatter their built-up version of reality forever (signified by the the blue-pills they have been taking all along). We need more people to challenge their view of reality, and accept that things may not be as happy and comfortable as we want them to be for the security of our futures and our child…

Ok, so this is what I was after in my question. Thank you.

So "Take the redpill" is (in this case) a statement about taking a different path with politics (politicians) .

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#378

Post by mullingitover »

Nasrudith wrote: post #333
stereolambda wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's interesting, then, that Switzerland is one of the oldest political regimes in Europe. This kind of rhetoric tends to come from elitist thinkers that would want a guarantee of power over people because they think they are right and somehow destined to have it. If we are on topic of exchanging opinions of famous men, I think Machiavelli said that the people can be misled and go astray but are not prevented b…

Yeah - democracies are downright miraculously stable in comparison to dictatorships. Look at a period of 200 years of the US - one civil war. Look at the history of England. If you say its "civil war" you need to be more specific than even by century! Stability of dictatorships is a "trains run on time" style Big Lie.

I don't think anyone was saying that dictatorships were good either - that's another system of government that was considered to be a devolution of a republic.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#379

Post by majormajor »

hajile wrote: post #350
majormajor wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is such a convincing answer, why don't you actually state it, instead of just saying that others have talked about it? It's very non-obvious to me why there's a natural "coalition of the bottom" versus that just being one possible way for things to shake out. (It's also worth noting that the original American system already suffered a MASSIVE failure of the state - coincidentally also around the hundred year…

It took them almost a dozen papers to cover all the points and explain them. Asking me to cover all that in a short post is rather unfair (and your various counterpoints no doubt appear in the anti-federalist papers which are also great reading). What crisis are you talking about specifically? The closest they came to failure was definitely the civil war. Most people would put that as a crisis of absolutely irreconci…

Well then why should I believe the set of arguments from the federalist papers over the counterpoints in the anti-federalist ones, then? The reason I ask you to summarize is because you're the one claiming their existence should change my views, and that they show that democracy has to fail.

The civil war sure seems like a bigger failure of a state than anything we've seen in Western Europe since the world wars. The "irreconcilable moral difference" was known when the constitution was being created, so punting on it is a pretty giant red flag to me about the ultimate wisdom of the founders, and about the constitution as something we should revere - we should change it constantly as situations change.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#380

Post by narrator »

cookie_monsta wrote: post #375
narrator wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been reading message boards where Aussies are saying they are no longer allowed to leave the country for any reason. Isn't that like the old Soviet Union and North Korea?

There are exemptions to the travel restrictions[1] So "not allowed to leave for any reason" is hyperbole. It has a grain of truth but like the other things on your list is a gross exaggeration. It's almost as if you shouldn't take everything you read online at face value [1] https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia

You could get an exit visa from the Soviet Union under certain circumstances too. Just cause there's an exemption doesn't mean it's all ok.
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