Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 550 posts

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#371

Post by hallway_monitor »

StavrosK wrote: post #259
toyg wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has strong protections for individual freedoms and privacy in their constitution, precisely to avoid an illiberal government from arising ever again. The Nazi ban is effectively the lone exception to the rule. This said, European police generally gets away with a degree of prevarication that North Americans would find unconceivable. The US constitution enshrines the rights of individuals over government, in a…

> This said, European police generally gets away with a degree of prevarication that North Americans would find unconceivable. Not to be inflammatory, but North American police generally gets away with a degree of murder that Europeans find inconceivable.

Stop the straw man please. No one is going around killing citizens. Something like nine unarmed people per year are killed by US police out of 10 million interactions.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#372

Post by hallway_monitor »

tomlockwood wrote: post #358
batch12 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If by living, you have the right, then you don't need to fight for it. You already have it. Exactly. I would not fight _for_ my right, but to protect the rights I already have. In the US, thats why articles in the bill of rights are phrased as they are. The first amendment doesn't say, "congress grants the right speak freely." Instead it is -- congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech. This i…

Ok, would you be able to protect your right to free speech if you were dead? Is being alive a requirement for protecting your right to free speech?

This is an intentionally antagonistic line of questioning. The answer has been given clearly. Freedom of speech is equally important as freedom of life. To put it bluntly, you'll have to kill me to silence me.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#373

Post by smsm42 »

csande17 wrote: post #4

You could write a similar article about a lot of nonprofits, lately. "Once a Developer of Web Browsers, Mozilla Faces an Identity Crisis." "Once a Free Online Encyclopedia, the Wikimedia Foundation Faces an Identity Crisis."

This is because the people that drive those changes are leftists, and as I mentioned above, it is a general shift of the leftist ideology, from liberalism to wokeness. Liberalism requires limiting government intrusion in certain areas, while wokeness - as long as the government is woke - welcomes and requires it. Liberalism prescribes tolerance to diverse points of view, wokeness rejects it - anything that is not wokeness is deemed harmful and should be eradicated.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#375

Post by throwawaysea »

This is why I stopped supporting the ACLU and instead support FIRE (https://www.thefire.org/). The ACLU is no longer a civil liberties organization but rather a progressive political organization that only pushes leftist political positions. They used their platform and large funds to betray their original mission and longtime supporters. I’m sad about how far they have fallen but also happy to move on instead of lending them my support.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#377

Post by smsm42 »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #332
smsm42 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are younger lawyers less likely to take cases of clients they deem detestable If only that. The younger lawyers would attack (sometimes physically, like with Molotov cocktails, as in the case of Urooj Rahman and Colinford Mattis) those they find detestable, and anybody in the law profession that dares to provide them with any service. Which once was considered a basic human right, but not anymore - now, if you defe…

Boohoo muh NYPD police can Tell me, when is property destruction justified, and when is it not? The USA was founded on the basis of property destruction; was that unjustified? When do you go from “freedom fighter” to terrorist?

Let me make it easy for you: if you throw a firebomb at the cop car, it's not justified.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#378

Post by seattle_spring »

briandear wrote: post #86
seoaeu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My recollection is they distanced themselves from gun rights cases after defending some right-wing group's right to hold an armed protest... at which one of the group members murdered a counter protestor.

Exempt that protestor wasn’t killed by a gun. Yet surprisingly, the ACLU hasn’t come out against the automobile.

Wow crazy! It's almost as if almost every adult American uses a car on a daily basis to support themselves, while an absolutely miniscule amount of Americans need to use a gun even once in their lifetimes.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#379

Post by smsm42 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #354
smsm42 wrote: post #238

It's not ACLU's identity crisis, it's the Left's identity crisis. Civil rights are checks on government and institutional powers. When the left gained a massive institutional power and a lot of governmental power, it turned out it doesn't really like this power to be checked and challenged. It's one thing to fight for the free speech of people who are maybe abhorrent, but ultimately their speech won't change much, it…

no offense but since when was rights based discourse ever the focus of the left? The left's self-declared purpose is advancing material interests of ordinary and marginalized people, using collective institutions like the state to make that happen. It seems like you're complaining about the fact that the left is not conservative at heart, which is odd. It's not exactly some sort of hidden agenda that the point of the…

> no offense but since when was rights based discourse ever the focus of the left

I am old enough to remember times where at least some individual rights - speech, association, honest elections, equality in the eyes of the law for all people regardless of their identity, due process - were the causes that most of the left would support. There were people on the left that genuinely supported Civil Rights movement because they believed all people should have equal rights. Now equality is offensive for them, and so are due process, free speech and other values their previous generation wrote on their banners.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#380

Post by tomlockwood »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #372
tomlockwood wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, would you be able to protect your right to free speech if you were dead? Is being alive a requirement for protecting your right to free speech?

This is an intentionally antagonistic line of questioning. The answer has been given clearly. Freedom of speech is equally important as freedom of life. To put it bluntly, you'll have to kill me to silence me.

I'm exercising my ability to speak freely, and it would be impossible for me to be here, speaking, if I was dead. However, it would be possible for me to live without freedom of speech. To put it bluntly, without life, my freedom of speech is useless. Being alive gives me the ability to exercise my right to live, and my right to speak freely. Its two rights for the price of one! Clearly a better deal!
Post reply on HN