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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

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Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#371

Post by IgorPartola »

rectang wrote: post #234
IgorPartola wrote: post #226

I am Ukrainian. Came to the US when I was 14. I may never be cool like all the hard looking dudes in movies and whatnot but I smile all the time because either I find something funny in what I’m engaged in or if I don’t that I try to think of it as such. I have always been this way and I can’t imagine not doing it. Also, I have read a few comments in this discussion about how fake American smiles and “how are you?”s…

You sound like a lovely person, Igor. You've gifted many passers-by delightful little blooms of human connection.

I wouldn’t go so far as lovely, but I think I found a way to make my chattiness palatable to others.

I did hear at one point that an exchange of at least seven phrases back and forth constitutes a conversation and that lots of service workers can go a day without one which can lead to depression and such. No clue how true that is but I figure this kind of approach can’t hurt.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#372

Post by IgorPartola »

dTal wrote: post #287
IgorPartola wrote: post #226

I am Ukrainian. Came to the US when I was 14. I may never be cool like all the hard looking dudes in movies and whatnot but I smile all the time because either I find something funny in what I’m engaged in or if I don’t that I try to think of it as such. I have always been this way and I can’t imagine not doing it. Also, I have read a few comments in this discussion about how fake American smiles and “how are you?”s…

Dude, you should teach seminars. A lot of people struggle with the tension between being genuine, and keeping small talk "small". It sounds like you've nailed it.

I mean that’s more or less all there is to it. But hey, maybe there is a book deal waiting for me out there :)

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#373

Post by pretext »

andreskytt wrote: post #256

Estonian here. At Skype (10+ years ago) I observed, that members of large cultures (American, British, Hindu etc.) had real trouble adjusting to the predominantly Estonian-based engineering culture. Probably because they had never had to adjust, commonly people adjust to _their_ culture as it tends to dominate large organizations. But once they did make an honest attempt, that was always most welcomed and gained them…

> Cultures are hard and take a lot of mutual respect to work through.

It's always beneficial, not only when dealing with people of other cultures, to adhere Postel's law [0]: "Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept".

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#374

Post by wruza »

sebular wrote: post #90
firebaze wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't second this. Everytime I'm in the US I'm scared of all the friendly, smiling people, asking "How are you?" in such a friendly tone, it's delightful. Of course it's faked, anyone knows, and dare if you'd reply with "not good, my aunt just died". Awkward situation ensues, everybody tries to get out of the situation ("and what would you like to have for breakfast tomorrow?"). Now replay the same situation in ano…

I'm an American and I love smiling at strangers and receiving a genuine smile in return. It's the perfect minimal conversation: no words, just sharing a moment of mutual positivity and kinship. It's like you said the perfect thing, except you didn't have to think of anything clever. It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside,…

You are thinking that they’re assuming hostility, when all they assume is you being neutral and tactful by default. The logic is: “we don’t know each other and have no reason to feel happy about something between us, for there is none [yet]”. If you smile at me, I think that you’re either happy about me, i.e. are focusing on me (which is inappropriate unless you’re someone I could in theory adore(smile at genuinely?), e.g. a girl, a puppy, etc), or you find something funny in me. It’s nice that you are open and friendly, but the way you do it isn’t tactful, and is too intimate for a stranger. You’d probably feel the same if you stood on a pier alone watching sunset, and some stranger moved beside, right next to your shoulder, never saying a word. So open, friendly and non-hostile, but something wrong – that’s personal space in action. We just have emotional personal space that no one dares to enter without invitation or at least enough courage.

It’s not a criticism, just explanation of what other people feel. Now for a criticism (well lack of understanding really):

Americans are obsessed with being Happy. They’re always smiling, and when bad things happen, they’re sad, but at the same time they’re okay, it’s fine. But isn’t that a contradiction? They are lying. What’s even wrong with feeling bad (or just neutrally sad, inert, nostalgic) and not finding other’s happiness encouraging? Why are they even copying other’s emotions, when they should have their own? People have a spectrum emotions (more than 50 of them) for serious neurological reasons, and they feel every one of them, not only “good” and “fine”. Why are they denying everything except happiness and love, when it’s normal to feel all of the spectrum sometimes?

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#375

Post by LightG »

andreskytt wrote: post #256

Estonian here. At Skype (10+ years ago) I observed, that members of large cultures (American, British, Hindu etc.) had real trouble adjusting to the predominantly Estonian-based engineering culture. Probably because they had never had to adjust, commonly people adjust to _their_ culture as it tends to dominate large organizations. But once they did make an honest attempt, that was always most welcomed and gained them…

You mean respect for other cultures and sometimes unexpectedly different ways of living enabled better cooperation and good times?

Who'd have thought?

No intentional snark at this post. It was very interesting. But crikey ...

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#376

Post by scrollaway »

vinay427 wrote: post #353
scrollaway wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never seen such a lack of self-awareness in a comment. And I've been here quite a while! Americans having to adjust to other people's cultures. Imagine that.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm genuinely not sure how the comment you replied to is implying that? I read it as saying the US woman should have adjusted her behavior.

It's more that the comment is missing the point of the grandparent.

Having worked across a lot of cultures, it's easy to spot how ignorant it is. And ignorance is fine but the poster is trying to decide how people Should Have Acted when they're clearly not in a place to really know that.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#377

Post by baldfat »

solipsism wrote: post #341
psysharp wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude you have no information, I can't sincerely understand how you think you can have such detailed understanding of the situation.

Why would I need more information? A guy was putting his hand on his co-workers' knees! Often enough that people scurried from him! It's clear the implication is made that this is just a "Hindu" thing. That's wrong. It's not a Hindu thing. It's offensive to say it is. And the idea that my comments saying so are being flagged is also offensive. Comments like Eh... Can't we just bomb them as usual? ;-) are the ones tha…

Imagine the horror of seeing two men walking holding hands because they are just friends. Many cultures have it where adult male friends hold hands and it just means that.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#378

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #325
Merem wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"After all, how could I genuinely wish a random German stranger a "Guten Morgen"..." By being a nice person, just like how one would hold open a door for someone else? Though, that aside, when you say "Guten Morgen", you aren't wishing anything. It's just being polite while at the same time, you are saying something about yourself. For example, you could simply say "Morgen" which would mean you are in a hurry, or, de…

This is exactly how "How are you?" is meant in American culture. It's not fake; greetings are culturally determined and especially the most common greeting phrases in any culture should not be treated literally but instead as part of a ritual exchange. "How are you?" "I'm well, and you?" "Great, thanks." It's just a ritualistic exchange.

I’ve learned, can’t say if mistakenly or not, that if an American/Brit really expects you to answer, they will say “Are you OK?”

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#380

Post by [deleted] »

pretext wrote: post #373
andreskytt wrote: post #256

Estonian here. At Skype (10+ years ago) I observed, that members of large cultures (American, British, Hindu etc.) had real trouble adjusting to the predominantly Estonian-based engineering culture. Probably because they had never had to adjust, commonly people adjust to _their_ culture as it tends to dominate large organizations. But once they did make an honest attempt, that was always most welcomed and gained them…

> Cultures are hard and take a lot of mutual respect to work through. It's always beneficial, not only when dealing with people of other cultures, to adhere Postel's law [0]: "Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle

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