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Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

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371–380 of 421 posts

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no such thing as too late Go ahead and buy some homes for investment! Go buy some Dogecoin! Some GME! What a low information take, to say something about rural homes and Biden or whatever. In the service of curiosity: maybe if you sold your $185,000 home from 1986 for $1.5m today, you’ll walk away a millionaire. A lot of people are looking at that arithmetic in San Francisco. And yet they do not sell! The index for…

> They will watch the market fall The market won't fall, that is the entire point. It reasonably cannot fall, since the only politics that could make it fall (buildout of rural infrastructure, overriding NIMBY shit) won't ever pass. Inertia is massive.

House prices are largely as insane as they are due to the domination of monetary policy. Inflation is eventually going to bite and the slow and painful walk back will begin.

As interest rates begin to climb, house prices shall fall. If inflation forces banks to rapidly increase interest rates, house prices will crash.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#372
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an excellent comment. What makes me very sad is that during the past 14 months the divide between those who own assets and those who don't has reached gargantuan proportions. I mean, in my raging inferno of a housing market, over the past couple of years home prices have easily doubled. So a 400k house from 2018 now sells for 800k. Yes, if I want to move to another house in my area I'll pay similarly…

> People made vastly more money just sitting around in their houses To be fair, that's not exactly making money. Value on paper, based on comparative sales nearby, has gone up in many places. But that's not money one can use to pay bills or buy food. It can also evaporate same way it showed up, just like the gains from early 2000s evaporated in 2008. Unless one gets lucky timing the market and buys low and cashes out…

> But that's not money one can use to pay bills or buy food.

I know several people who have refinanced (a good idea in my opinion) and taken cash out (a bad idea in my opinion) to do things like remodel kitchens or and pay other bills.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#373

I miss the part where they show that the rich people's "choice mindset" is wrong? Are we just going to accept at face value that poor people have no choices whatsoever and are simply victims of society (and of course capitalism, I guess)? To me, that sounds a lot like religion. Of course you can not assume that everybody could be equally rich, and only their choices are to blame if they are not. But the other extreme…

The article doesn't say they have no choices it says they have less/limited choices. And this is simply a common sense fact. The more resources/power you have the more options you have. I can buy so many more things and combinations of things with $100 vs $1, for example.

> The article doesn't say they have no choices it says they have less/limited choices.

When you are poor, sometimes all of the choices available to you are bad ones.

And when you are constrained to making an endless series of 'least bad' choices, is it any wonder that at some point you inevitably go for some instant gratification to ameliorate your intolerable circumstance, at least for a while?

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#374
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are actually many, many communities in the United States where people live on dirt roads. That's super common. I grew up on a dirt road, and my parents still live on one. Much of the rural US lives off of paved roads. With food and stuff, the thing is that in the US, you can very quickly go from having not much to having nothing. Many people do suffer from hunger and live on the edge because the cost of living…

> The correlate to the people you are describing in the United States are referred to as the 'homeless.' It really isn't, and I'm assuming you have never been to Brasil, Bolivia, Peru (Venezuela is out of the question for travelers, but also another example), not to mention Central America and parts of Mexico, I'm sure. We're talking about inter-generational poverty. People having absolutely no knowledge of what it's…

I was just responding to your assertion that poverty doesn't really exist in the United States. It's not as widespread as in Latin America, and tends to be more sporadic, but there are hundreds of thousands of people living in tents and improvised shelters with no access to running water or electricity and no hope for the future here. The United States is no more a homogeneous bloc of wealth and prosperity than Latin America is a continuous favela of poverty.

I read your core argument in this post to be that the form of poverty you describe is much more widespread in Latin America than in the United States. I'd be a fool to disagree with you on that. Yes, you're right.

I'm certainly not trying to win a pity contest and say that the United States is a horrible place where everything sucks. That would be absurd. But for many people, the United States is a much shittier place than you make it out to be.

As for the challenges of these places, they are daunting indeed. The United States is about as toxic a neighbor as one could ask for. Sending money and guns South, and bringing drugs North. Mounting coups. Stealing the best and the brightest from countries that desperately need that human capital. Putting children fleeing violence and poverty in cages. None of it should sit right with someone who has a modicum of conscience. But, as you have seen from our recent political battles, we barely know what to do to fix ourselves, let-alone help our neighbors. Our country is grappling with it's own reckoning as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Our Gini is 0.48 and growing. Mexico's is 0.5. With every passing year the homeless encampments get larger.

Perhaps the time will come when the fortunes are reversed?

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#375
post #74
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Poor People in general are not lazy Exactly. I grew up poor and my teen employment was bust-your-ass jobs like factory and restaurant work. I was once on a contract for a large company, and throughout the day I'd watch the office employees enjoy quiet, pleasant days with plenty of chatting with coworkers. The most strenuous thing they'd do was occasionally rush from one meeting to another. They'd all be gone by 5 a…

> hardest workers in the building It took me a while to understand that work is not paid based on difficulty, but on labor supply and demand. The reason why many very hard jobs pay so low is because there’s lots of people who will do them. There’s an axiom about smart work > hard work but I think that oversimplifies too much. I did manual labor for a few summers and it didn’t pay very well. I just didn’t understand w…

"The reason why many very hard jobs pay so low is because there’s lots of people who will do them."

There's a hell of a lot more to it than that. From hiring bias, to school bias, to class bias, to name bias, to area bias - from sheer propaganda to straight up coercion. From lobbying, to perverse subsidies, to externalization of costs, etc, etc, ad nauseaum.

"Understanding how wages work at the macro level gave me some mental peace."

Are you quite sure that said mental peace isn't blissful ignorance... Because ignorance is only blisfful to the ignorant. America's wages at the macro level are deeply, catastrophically, even systematically unjust, in horrifically short-sighted ways.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#376
post #370

Oh man this resonates in a weird way... I don't know jack shit about being poor. I grew up extremely well-off in the late 80s and 90s. My college education was paid 100% by my parents without a loan. We had nice cars and belonged to country clubs. Even in my first job where I was only making 35K/yr my parents gave me quite a bit of help so it was easy. I have a few friends that are poor... I feel for their issues, I…

If you don’t mind me asking, what’s your perspective on your purpose in life? I always wondered if the outlook is different for someone starting from Boardwalk instead of Baltic Avenue, so to speak.

I gotta be honest, I don’t really feel like I have a purpose. I just kinda exist and try to be happy by surrounding myself with activities and people I enjoy spending time with. Im not saying its all roses all the time, I get depressed (badly so sometimes) but I get through it and return to a happy stable existence.

I have a brother, I think we both disappoint our parents a great deal because we are both kidless (by choice in my case, I do not speak for my brother). They would love grand kids and I think they would be wonderful grandparents.

I dont have a partner but I would love to find someone with the same easy-living philosophy. I like working on interesting things, I like playing golf, and I like traveling. Its honestly hard to find someone like that and that causes me the most sadness sometimes... so maybe my life goal is to find my other?

My biggest fear in life is not having enough health or money to maintain my baseline standard of living (admittedly I am more frugal than this post hints at). I actually do not give a damn if I die tomorrow but I would be immensely unhappy with a life altering injury or loss of wealth.

I dunno if I would say I grew up on Boardwalk, but whats the green ones just before Boardwalk? That always felt more fitting.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#377
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The debt in the current world economy is unheard of, and the cost of housing is getting out of reach of first home buyers. Something has to give at some point. If interest rates rise in the next 10 years then I suspect many will be left with mortgage payments they can't afford.

> If interest rates rise in the next 10 years then I suspect many will be left with mortgage payments they can't afford. Sure, but there will always be a bigger (Chinese) fish to eat you(r investment). If there is one thing this world does not lack, it's a bunch of individuals and investment funds looking to make money on rent.

Oof a Chinese land grab after a mortgage crash. That's a bad future. I really hope that doesn't happen.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#378
post #354

Oh man this resonates in a weird way... I don't know jack shit about being poor. I grew up extremely well-off in the late 80s and 90s. My college education was paid 100% by my parents without a loan. We had nice cars and belonged to country clubs. Even in my first job where I was only making 35K/yr my parents gave me quite a bit of help so it was easy. I have a few friends that are poor... I feel for their issues, I…

Volunteer & serve on the board of a non-profit that focuses on meeting a community need. Did you know that diapers are not covered in the United States by government assistance? So the current setup is that we have a lot of diaper banks across the United States that provide diapers to those in need. Diapers are sold as single items in corner stores in low income areas at extreme markups, and sometimes parents can onl…

Im sad this a real problem (and its a good example of a problem I would never have thought existed).

Ill take a look at the links, thank you.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#379
post #236

There are a couple things to understand about being poor. It's not about lack of money (though obviously having lots of money means you're not poor). It's about insecurity. I grew up in farm country in the 1980s. Nobody had money, but I didn't feel poor. When I moved to other parts of the country, that's when I encountered poor people. They had to worry about crime, schools for their kids, and being homeless. When yo…

Poverty is relative but those who are not poor tend to view it as absolute. So anyone who has any apparent trappings of being well-off, such as a car, mobile phone or a big TV, obviously isn't poor and is a scammer or criminal. Never mind that, in this day and age, a car and a cellphone are pretty much essential for getting work and a TV (big, small or in between) is the cheapest form of entertainment for filling you…

Furthermore, not every poor person was born poor. They may have earned the trappings of wealth in the before times.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#380
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty ridiculous statement as someone that has lived in multiple countries including the US. I would put forth the First Nations in Canada where many reservations yet have a source of clean drinking water despite gov’ts promises for the last couple of decades to help them with it. And to compare being poor in the US with the Third World is also shows a lack of knowledge. When you’ve lived in places where t…

There are plenty of First-Nations people in the United States without access to clean drinking water. In your time in the US, did you get a chance to visit the Navajo reservation? "Tribes without clean water demand an end to decades of US government neglect US has broken promises as Indigenous Americans lack access to safe water, a crisis worsened by Covid-19" "An estimated one in 10 Indigenous Americans lack access…

Claim was “the US is the worst of developed countries”.

Clearly not.

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