Live data from Hacker News

I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

blog.usejournal.com

371–380 of 583 posts

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discarding applicants for game dev experience and claiming there's a dev shortage is completely bizarre. It's like starting a restaurant and banning chefs with baking experience.

Do you know what a game designer is?

I was one. The role doesn't preclude programming or software engineering experience--it very often includes it.

Satoru Iwata was a notable game designer. He was very much a skilled engineer, but his resume would've been trashed.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#372

Absolutely terrible developers exist, some have 5, 10, or 20 years of experience. I have worked with at least two of them in my career. One was a co worker at a startup. He seemed smart and confident but he just didn't do any work and focused on things like "optimizing code linting" and breaking our DNS, telling us it was fixed then laughing at us while we had to wait 24 hours for the new fixed DNS stuff to resolve.…

From what I heard I think your company also have a problem with code review and operational safety.

Only so many problems code review can catch. And on a team of <10 people you’re going to be pretty generous with permissions and operational safety.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#373
post #95

This person sounded really experienced, so I looked them up on LinkedIn. 7 months at their first company. 9 months at their current company. That's it, aside from non-programming jobs before their bootcamp. The whole thing reads like inventing scenarios that didn't happen or embellishing them. > A bad interview is when you ask them the definition of some specific thing in some specific framework like “Tell me what a…

I have 25 years experience and a CS degree. I even taught Java and C++ for 4 years at a college. Our top performing developer has this background: No software eng. experience 2015. 2016 Bootcamp 2017 Salesforce 2018 - today - our company: TS, React, Vue, NodeJS, Python, Main devops developer that brought up our docker infra. > Didn't happen. Yikes...

Bootcamp grads haven't been in the workforce long enough, so whether they can weather the fickle winds of the technology landscape is an open question. That's where the CS degree shows its worth: technologies change but fundamentals change less. Comparison-based sorting is still O(nlogn). You still have to partition and break down large data sets in order to work on them. Time and space tradeoffs will always exist and will need more than a bootcamp education to be able to evaluate properly.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#374
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this sounds more like a crazy anecdote to me. I once had a new CTO come in at a place I’d been working at for about a year and a half, and he refused to interview any candidates that weren’t Muslim (as existing staff were replaced 1 at a time). While this is extremely fucked up, I would be surprised if I could find another tech company in the state where this happened. Cursing at someone for having experience in…

(Off-topic) I was surprised to learn that in Northern Ireland, you are legally required to ask candidates whether they are Catholic or Protestant. If they decline answering, you must make an educated guess and document that. The goal is to ensure you are not hiring all Catholics or all Protestants. Northern Ireland is in a unique situation. The Troubles were horrible. I can’t imagine having to write regulations to pu…

What’s interesting is that of the other developed countries, the US actually sounds the closest to this. No other country that I know of (maybe Canada?) will ask you to describe your “race” when applying to university for example

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#375

I honestly don't think pay is an issue in tech, but most of the others the author brings up are valid points. The crux of the issue in my opinion is the fact that NO ONE HIRES JUNIOR DEVELOPERS . Companies don't want to take on the burden of training junior devs and then complain when there aren't enough senior devs to go around. Obviously it makes sense from a business perspective, but taking a step back, training j…

When developers change jobs after about 2 years at a company, what's the incentive for any individual company to take on the burden of training junior talent? By the time they've got the experience to contribute on their own, they're gone.

I really don't understand this idea that is often repeated. You take someone who can code in a specific language and maybe a specific framework, and it takes them years to become useful?

Are people understating the capabilities of young devs or are they all really slow? Another possibility is that what they're learning in those two years are company-specific, in which case being senior wouldn't change much.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#376

> The general rudeness is ridiculous. I once had an interviewer ask me if I was a wizard with GO, C++, Rust, and C over the phone. Then when I said I had some experience with rust, he immediately cursed at me and hung up. > This experience is fairly common. Is it? I've done a fair bit of interviewing on both sides of the table, and can say with complete honesty I've never heard a curse said in anger in any of them. I…

I interviewed at a small company just for an internship several years back. It was an iOS position, but again, internship/jr. level. I said I wasn't an expert but wanted to learn and had spent some time developing some basic iOS apps on my own. Guy proceeds to seriously ask me about low-level memory management, i.e. ARC (Automatic Reference Counting) vs. other methods (this was roughly 2013 or so). I attempted to giv…

> Guy proceeds to seriously ask me about low-level memory management

Some internship candidates would have been able to answer those questions.

I interview a dozen or so internship candidates every year, and i see a lot of variation in what they know. They're all good students from good universities, so they've got a grounding in theoretical computer science, and they've all done some coursework projects and one or two group projects. But some have done a lot more than that. One was into competitive programming. One had built a business around automated eBay sniping. One had built a few iOS apps that were making money.

My approach is to hire anyone who has any practical experience (a group project is fine) and doesn't try to bullshit me. But i could imagine some people focusing more closely on the handful of people with deeper experience. It depends on what you want your internship programme to do.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically both. When I graduated with my CS degree, I was _thrilled_ to be offered 50k. Now new grads feel lowballed at 200k TC. So hard not to say that the market hasn't adjusted somewhat. At the same time, part of the reason companies even have to pay so much is because they've made interviewing so damn hard. I personally know many people at great companies like Google and Twitter who are _desperate_ to change…

There is no shortage of software developers. It is a rumor created to bring more people in https://youtu.be/6X-SG6bA4Zg?t=77

wow! what an excellent commentary that stretches well beyond India - this is Silicon Valley level comedy :)

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#378
post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to this, I think even a little bit of genuine esoterica is okay in an interview process so long as: 1) You're looking for someone with deep knowledge of that subject 2) You don't treat it as an automatic fail when they get it wrong If I'm interviewing for a senior role, and I ask them a few super obscure questions about the language/framework/platform I need them to be an expert on, that serves as a litmus tes…

> For JS it would be something more like, "What does '{} + 12' evaluate to?" It would be really hard for me to take the process serious if I was asked that during an interview.

Again, it's just a signifier. If you know the answer (or can explain a good guess!), you probably also know a bunch of actually-useful dark corners of the language. If you don't know the answer, you may still know all those other things. It's just one data point among many.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I’d happily accept being a lifeless drone, at least for a few years. Save the extra income and invest it. Reap the dividends. Having said that, I don’t know how bad those roles actually are. Obviously, it’s not worth it if it affects your mental health… and unfortunately yeah, that is an issue working in this field.

Nope. You don't. The difference between both taxes and the "next in line" isn't large enough. Hedge funds pay as much as Google/Facebook, but work and life balance at SV companies is much better. Compare my two offers from a few years ago - well known hedge fund in CT vs a food delivery tech company. Well known hedge fund paid $250k+50k bonus for expected minimum 50hour weeks and 20 days of vacation time. Food delive…

maybe try going to actual top firms: JS, HRT

$400k new grad TC, Free food, 40 hour work weeks, great company culture (many events)

Facebook this year had many intern events trying to convince people that FB > Quant, evidently the brain drain is there

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#380

> Furthermore, if you really want a C++ developer you can just expect a developer to learn C++ on the job if they have any adjacent experience with any other language. Is this really accurate? C++ is a very different language than even Java, not to mention Python or JS. Languages have their own quirks and attributes that often matter at some point. Especially C++. I am on a team where we are constantly building stuff…

That ain't happening with C++ unless you have a very good understanding of the bazillion things C++ lets you control. Just deciphering the STL errors when you compile is a headache. C++ gives you way too much rope to hang yourself with, compared to even languages like C, which is already a tough thing for someone who's never worked with a language where there is no garbage collection and typing is not strict.
Post reply on HN