I like the simplicity of java, syntax is a bit lame but the majority of language is sane. I used to hate the fact that every file must be a class but if you respect inversion of control then that's a good default. The part that I think really stupid is java beans.
Java Is Underhyped
371–380 of 808 posts
Re: Java Is Underhyped
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But so it Python. For a very different definition of "good enough," i.e. unless you're working on a large codebase maintained by a large team for years, need high performance, or need deep low-overhead observability. So Java is "good enough" for a much wider selection of "serious" (large/mission-critical/long-lived/ high-performance) software. > And for specialized things, there are better choices available to me.…
Dropbox, instagram, google and youtube all were written in Python at some point. Languages don't scale, architectures do. But even when the language became the bottleneck, they went the road of rust and go, not the road of java. Again, not to say Java is not used by those companies with great success.
There is an absolute mountain of Java at Google. Pretty sure it's the most used language by LOC.
Re: Java Is Underhyped
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody has started a project with Ant in the last decade. Of all the Java projects on Github Ant is probably not even 1%. > Oh and now I have to make it work in the IDE too, click through a billion menus and dialogs, You click "Project from existing sources" in IntellIJ and it will recognize both Maven and Gradle projects and just work? Sync the dependencies? configure runtimes and classpaths? What? With Maven and Gr…
I'm talking about a maven project I have to use sometimes at work. Let me walk you through all the shit I had to do: - Install and set the right java version system-wide - Copy some config files for the project system-wide (granted, this is not java specific, but still) - Click in some IDE menu to enable some build settings - Click in some IDE menu to install some "Lombok" plugin - Click in some IDE menu to select th…
> I know you will say, this is all fault of whoever made this crap project
It is. There's really no excuse for that. If it's been similar every time then you've worked on crap every time.
Building a java project should be (and is on projects I work on) as easy as installing a jvm and running either maven or gradle to build it. End of story.
"Install some lombok plugin" is only necessary if you want the IDE to understand lombok, IntelliJ will just pop up a box saying "Want this?" and you click "Yes". I don't see what's so onerous about that.
The rest you describe is really down to poor developers.
Re: Java Is Underhyped
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kotlin solves most of the problems for us while leveraging the benefits of the JVM.
Long term, Kotlin will only stay relevant on Android. They cannot fully embrace the JVM while targeting ART, JS and native at the same time.
With respect, you're wrong. I say this because we're now seeing widespread adoption of serverside Kotlin at places like Google and Amazon. With the support of Google and Jetbrains they can target whatever they want.
Re: Java Is Underhyped
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps you could enlighten me then? Rather than just posting low-effort, content-less, drive-by snark? The OP even says they're just posting their own selection criteria in other comments.
Probably I can't.
Thanks for your constructive input to the discussion then.
Re: Java Is Underhyped
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
I write software in Java. I can't stand python - too wishy-washy. But my main complaint about Python is trying to use someone else's software. Then it degenerates into a maze of twisty little passages of trying to install the correct set of dependencies, not knowing where those files are installed (which makes it difficult on a cluster, as you may need to do the install on every node separately). Then you try using p…
Python's packaging is a lot better with Poetry. Use Poetry and build the wheel with poetry build. The lockfile lets you create an exact virtual environment. Like you mentioned, wheel files are not nearly as customizable as JARs. You can easily pick & choose the dependencies to include in JARs (fat JARs) and change namespaces of dependencies via shading to prevent collisions. I've generally found it easier to add JARs…
I'm all for a good project-based package manager for Python, but I have tried Poetry several times over the last years and not once has it worked as intended. It always failed to install packages for some reason.
Re: Java Is Underhyped
#377For my use cases, Java has all the wrong compromises: - not high level enough to compete with Python/Ruby/JS/PHP, etc - not low level enough to compete with Rust/D/Nim/Zig - not specialized enough to compete with Erlang/R/Go/Julia - not opinionated enough to compete with Lisp/Haskell So why use Java ? It's good, it's fast, it's productive, it's well supported, battle tested and documented for decades with a huge pool…
Those are all the wrong reasons in an enterprise environment. Seasoned Java developers would laugh at you if you would tell this to their face
What I love about Java is, that I can update the runtime without being afraid to break something. I also love the mature eco system. What's also great is that the compiler catches most code issues before you try running your code.
What I don't like is the module support introduced with Java 9, which is vastly inferior to OSGi.
Re: Java Is Underhyped
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kotlin solves most of the problems for us while leveraging the benefits of the JVM.
What's the state of server-side Kotlin now, is it usable and what kind of JVM are cloud hosts running it on? Kotlin seems like one of the best languages out there.
Not only usable, but becoming very widely used. It's no different from Java for deployment.
Re: Java Is Underhyped
#379Re: Java Is Underhyped
#380Language opinions are fun :) I'm actually old enough that Java was my main language during CS. No Python... Before that when I during my teenage years I got to lecture by some senior in IBM that showed how amazing is Java and it's the future. (That was 10! Years before I've attended) And that's that's the thing... Hype is all about "new" things. And after a while it dusts off. HN had a lot of posts about good develop…
>I'm actually old enough that Java was my main language during CS. No Python...
Is java considered old or outdated for today in CS? I'm learning Java in my AP computer science class to this day.