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Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

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Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#371

Post by howinteresting »

luma wrote: post #341
dan-robertson wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my question too. I don’t really understand why the U.K. was chosen as the initial market. At least in the U.S. people are used to venmo and suchlike being services they might use. My guess is that either the cryptocurrency people are based in the U.K. or that whoever is in charge is viewing the country as something like America but easier to get started (anglophone but smaller market for testing or easier re…

America has AML and KYC and running an exchange that allows trades which dodge those requirements is a great path to men in black suits knocking on your door.

Does the UK not have AML and KYC?

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#372

Post by justapassenger »

troquerre wrote: post #187
CynicusRex wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can late MobileCoin adopters buy the same amount of coin for the same price as early adopters or is it a multi-level marketing pyramid scheme like the rest of the crypto“currency” greed and spam inducing cesspool? https://www.cynicusrex.com/file/cryptocultscience.html

MobileCoin is already liquid on multiple exchanges so the coins would just be purchased at whatever the market price is. It also doesn't make sense for late adopters to get the same price because there's a lot more risk associated with being an early adopter than a late adopter. This works both ways — if something bad happens to MobileCoin that tanks the price late adopters would be able to buy at a cheaper price bec…

> It also doesn't make sense for late adopters to get the same price because there's a lot more risk associated with being an early adopter than a late adopter.

Other way of saying it, is that early participants in a pyramid scheme don’t have guarantees that they’ll find enough people for the scheme to be successful.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#374

Post by nullc »

aaaxyz wrote: post #144
josh2600 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moxie != Signal. Moxie, as an individual, is a paid technical advisor to MobileCoin but the reality is that we could never pay Moxie what his time is worth. I am thankful that he has chosen to help make this project a reality.

That is just sad. I've been a longtime signal user (since the textsecure/redphone days). I've always given moxie a pass on his controversial decisions (no federalisation, no 3rd party clients, no fdroid repo, relying on Google play services, being slow to release serverside source code) because the team was small and obviously had to cut corners somewhere. But learning that they spent their time adding support for a…

Especially when you consider those decisions in light of this move: they create platform lock in and lockdown.

Want to run signal with no payments integration or with a Bitcoin wallet instead? Too bad.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#375

Post by PragmaticPulp »

chrisco255 wrote: post #294
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. Your shares were _diluted_ by the company issuing new shares. Now your 100 shares are worth half as much. That's not correct. A company sells shares in exchange for cash. That cash is owned by the company, which is represented by the shares. Companies can't simply dilute away their shareholders like you're suggesting. The money raised by selling shares doesn't simply disappear.

> Companies can't simply dilute away their shareholders like you're suggesting. The money raised by selling shares doesn't simply disappear. Yes, they can and yes they do, all the time. That's not only precisely how VC funding works in the early stages of a startup raising seed money and subsequently doing Series A, B, etc. that's also how public financing works via new share offerings on a public marketplace like NY…

> That's not only precisely how VC funding works in the early stages of a startup raising seed money and subsequently doing Series A, B, etc.

The concept of "pre-money" and "post-money" valuations exist for precisely this reason. You can read more here: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/difference-between-...

If a company raises $1mm on a $9mm pre-money valuation, the company is now worth $10mm ($9mm valuation + $1mm raised) and the extra shares correspond to the $1mm raised.

Onwership is diluted on a percentage basis, but the Series B and C investors didn't steal value from previous investors through dilution. There are more shares because there is more money in the company.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#376

Post by leppr »

JeremyNT wrote: post #346
cdogl wrote: post #302

Long-time Signal user here, with a number of technical and non-technical friends, colleagues and acquaintances who also use it. I don't know who was asking for this. And I think it really dilutes Signal's message. I believe that everyone has a fundamental right to secure, private communication. Some people may hold the same belief for the right to transfer funds. I don't agree and I suspect many others feel the same.…

This kind of anti-feature is not what I signed up for. I just wanted a secure messenger normal users could understand! It seems like a simple enough problem that Signal solved well (apart from the phone number requirement). Sadly, now it feels like Signal was just a long game trojan for Marlinspike to onboard users to a cryptocurrency pyramid scheme. This has nothing to do with its core functionality and it makes me…

How does the ability to transfer "points" from one number to another, remove from the messaging features?

Is it really that hard to imagine unobtrusive UI that makes this as optional as sending GIFs, stickers or location data? Or did the later features already kill Signal for you?

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#377

Post by andremedeiros »

meowfly wrote: post #195

The comment from the article echos my own sentiments: > Speaking solely as a person who is really into encrypted messaging, it terrifies me that they're going to take this really clean story of an encrypted messenger and mix it up with the nightmare of laws and regulations and vulnerability that is cryptocurrency. Moreover, there are three other points I'd add: 1. I don't like "do everything" apps like WeChat or Line…

I would even say that it’s not a clean story of an encrypted messenger. Not when your phone number is associated with it.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#378

Post by nullc »

hn8788 wrote: post #315
codethief wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3. Moxie directs his non-profit to integrate MobileCoin in secret The fact that Moxie is collaborating with MobileCoin has been known for years . EDIT: See links in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26718488

But not the fact that it's going to be directly integrated into Signal. The CEO of MobileCoin is in here saying that he started it as a way to fund Signal, which from what I can tell, wasn't public knowledge until today. So he gets to monopolize a currency that was mostly worthless, knowing that it would be directly integrated into a popular application, greatly increasing its value. If that's not a scam, I don't kno…

They also strongly de-emphasized any connection, saying he was only an advisor. Now it's paid CTO and that funding signal with it was the plan all along...

Super dishonest and untrustworthy.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#379

Post by stefan_ »

sequoia wrote: post #219
meowfly wrote: post #195

The comment from the article echos my own sentiments: > Speaking solely as a person who is really into encrypted messaging, it terrifies me that they're going to take this really clean story of an encrypted messenger and mix it up with the nightmare of laws and regulations and vulnerability that is cryptocurrency. Moreover, there are three other points I'd add: 1. I don't like "do everything" apps like WeChat or Line…

> Early in Signal's development they would add privacy features. Lately they have been adding social features. This is intentional and relates to Signal's growth in the past few years. It's not "a hacker tool for nerds" it's "a friendly, easy to use chat app with stickers & voice messages (also strong encryption)." IRC does one thing and does it well, and barely anyone uses it. The "clean technical vision" story isn'…

And what on earth does cryptocurrency have to do with mass appeal then?

The whole "not available in the US" messaging around MobileCoin, no doubt to avoid regulatory attention, gives this particular ponzi scheme a very nice ring.

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