Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up • Hacker News Board

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#371

Post by fastball » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

rapind wrote: post #361

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #17

This is kind of the end result we're heading for, where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy. The shitty part is that I'm pretty sure 99% of people are reasonable human beings but the media has to make it seem like that isn't the case so the risk equation changes. Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky becaus…

"Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky because the media makes it seem like there are murderers lurking around every corner." They're called cars. Houses are packed tighter and there's more cars per household than when I was growing up (maybe due to everyone being double income now). Streets are also narrower and most have street parking, creating visibility issues. Go…

Honestly, this is pretty trivially avoided. My parents drilled it into my head to look both ways before going into a street. I always look ways before going into the street. It's really not difficult.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#372

Post by sdeframond » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

trinovantes wrote: post #257

It's similar to how we get little/no feedback from job interviews and applications because of a couple of outliers making giving feedback not worth the trouble Has it always been this way or was there a time long ago where it's common to receive feedback? (I've only been working professionally for ~5 years)

IME, Not getting feedback from job interviews is mainly because 1) recruiters are incentivized for closing candidates, not cultivating brand awareness, and 2) giving actual meaningful feedback is hard, so it seems worthless to give a canned response.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#373

Post by prewett » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

haecceity wrote: post #90

Founders swapping titles is enough to decide success of a company? Interesting relationship dynamic.

Probably more like doing what you're better at. Maybe one had the idea and the original vision, so they became CEO by default, whereas they might actually better at developing the product and should do the CTO role instead. But since it's their idea, they are relatively good at evangelising it and relating to the public, investors, and customers. However, the other might be much better at that than at CTO, so the company would benefit by swapping roles.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#374

Post by gweinberg » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

throwitaway12 wrote: post #118

I am so thankful to work in an environment where everyone is just... normal. We don't have to walk on egg shells when speaking. Men and women can still interact like it was before I started reading about such insanity.

Then why post from a throwaway account?

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#375

Post by toyg » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

igorkraw wrote: post #350

toyg wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Yet another man who thinks all women are hysteric. What next, are you going to ask me if it’s my ‘period’?” Once one moves from a position of effective prejudice (“he will criticise me because I’m a woman”), any critical statement can be read from that perspective. It’s a bit like with conspiracy theories, where every debunking attempt can be turned into “ of course THEY would say that!”.

You are inventing a hypothetical straw-man. Until you can point to conversation where someone said something fact based like I gave as an example and people accept your twisting and start a twitter mob of any impact, this remains a hypothetical victimization.

I could transcribe entire conversations here and you would still accuse me of making them up. What I wrote I heard almost precisely word for word; but in the end, exchanging anecdata until the end of time will do precisely nothing to persuade anyone that such mindset really exists (and indeed prospers), apart from making me a candidate for cancellation.

The main point is that, unless you’re talking physics (maybe), nothing is so “fact-based” that it cannot be perceived in the “wrong” way by someone sufficiently determined to do that.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#376

Post by fastball » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #266

cronix wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy Wouldn't someone talking to someone "lower" on the "oppression hierarchy" just be what we basically have today? That sounds like "privilege," or an "imbalanced power dynamic." I think you'll only be able to talk to equals, whatever that is, and by whatever metric is en vogue for that day.

I do some work with HIV prevention. Sometimes I give talks where I'm very blunt about the realities of HIV among men who have sex with men. I've watched people immediately shift from mild hostility and discomfort to wholehearted acceptance of what I am saying, when I tell them I'm gay myself. In that circumstance, I think it is clear that my sexual orientation is the basis by which they are judging the authoritativen…

You see this on Reddit all the time, every day.

Someone wants to disagree with whatever nonsense the hivemind is raving about in the moment, but in order to do so they have to prostrate themselves and make it clear whose side they're on before they make their (often very valid) point.

e.g. "I hate Trump just has much as the rest of you but..." or "Look we need to be super supportive of X group and my dad is actually X but..."

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#377

Post by remarkEon » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

skjfdoslifjeifj wrote: post #329

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #17

This is kind of the end result we're heading for, where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy. The shitty part is that I'm pretty sure 99% of people are reasonable human beings but the media has to make it seem like that isn't the case so the risk equation changes. Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky becaus…

One of my main concerns is that almost all legitimate discussion is now happening in private invite only communities because people are too risk averse to continue to chat on public sites that will be indexed forever in a culture where they can be cancelled for even a slightly uncouth opinion. Almost all of my consumption and contribution on the Internet is now in private communities that are quite strict about invit…

Not saying I do this, necessarily, but friends of mine who are active in policy circles write for various publications under pseudonyms now for this reason. The development of the idea happens in private group chats, where everyone is using their IRL name, but the publication happens under a pen name.

I really don't know if this is a positive change for how policy gets made, but it is happening actively right now.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#378

Post by neonological » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

I went into this article thinking it was going to be an outrage piece about men being sexist towards women. Instead it's about men being afraid of being accused of being sexist.

This is a very real issue. It's already gotten to the point where the people behind the movement are hysterically unreasonable and irrational. Literally even feminists who are integral parts of the movement itself aren't safe from their own vitriol.

Below is an TED talk about the story of a activist feminist who had her entire activist career destroyed simply by saying something that the cancel culture disagreed with:

https://youtu.be/3WMuzhQXJoY

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#379

Post by afarrell » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #311

idyio wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy This supposed hierarchy of oppression, based on identity characteristics such as race, gender and sexuality, really is the biggest scam going. Almost all of the oppression we see around us can be explained by wealth disparities, corruption, and abuse of power. Yet, identarians insist on shoehorning everything into their flawed worldview. The Black L…

The fact that so many large corporations are eager to throw money at BLM, change their corporate logos to black, etc. while doing nothing tangible to address the real issues, proves to me that the current identity politics narrative is serving the elite very well.

> while doing nothing tangible to address the real issues

Doing things to solve the real issues would run into difficult real-world problems both symbolic and logistical/physical. Overcoming them require having conversations where people

1. Do creative problem-solving

2. Say “well, actually...” about practical implementation details.

3. Speak honestly about the real difficulties and risks of unintended consequences.

4. Admit to failure and error and even inattention.

All of which is blocked by similar social dynamics to the ones discussed in the article.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#380

Post by hawkice » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

This seems like a classic problem of trust, more than a discussion about gender. I can't imagine investing in a company I didn't trust enough to be candid with, but I guess that's happening, the money in it is probably good.

It's worth saying that people who have no capability to betray you in a certain way are easier to do business with. It limits downside. I'd prefer to have a reputation for defending my friends, but not being credible for a certain attack is an interesting advantage. Perhaps vulgar and obnoxious people will be easier to work with too. I will look for a way to get mobbed that doesn't violate my moral code, might as well break the seal on that so I never make anyone nervous.