Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#371

Post by implements » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

howinteresting wrote: post #362

implements wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overlap is because they’re both human, not both forms of women. Sexism is “prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it primarily affects women and girls. It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles, and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another”. GCs reject sexism. Rejecting sexism doesn’t mean rejecting the realit…

These are all specific constructed definitions of "sex" that do a poor job of modeling the reality of variation in humanity. There is no fundamental law of the universe which says that sex must be defined through gametes or chromosomes. In any case, all this definition stuff is secondary to how our actual lives are affected by this nonsense. As a transfeminine person I've been using women's bathrooms for many years w…

Well I doubt anyone here doesn’t understand where babies come from, and hence what sexual biology is about.

You are a male person who wishes to present and live as (I assume) a stereotypically feminine woman.

As I understand trans ideology, living and presenting is inadequate - the dysphoria / drive to be a woman - requires affirmed acceptance of full womanhood.

This brings transwomen into direct identity conflict with women who define their womanhood in terms of sex (potential motherhood, and consequences thereof) and women for whom femininity is not an important aspect of their individuality.

> I really want to do better things with my life than deal with a bunch of boundary cops.

“Females want to better things with their lives than deal with people who wish to corral them within a reconstituted gender defined boundary mainly for the psychological benefit of members of an oppressor class (entitled males)” - is the other side of that coin.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#372

Post by ric2b » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 9:26 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #327

phpnode wrote: post #22

HN is also penalising threads that discuss this. This post has 74 upvotes in 27 minutes and 11 comments at time of writing. Ordinarily it would significantly outrank most of the other posts on the front page, but it doesn't seem to be able to break past #15. Either this is because HN users are flagging it, or because something else is going on. As Reddit is a YC company it'd be really nice to hear an explanation. Thi…

Users are flagging them. The only thing moderators have done is decline to turn off the flags. We turn off flags sometimes when (a) the article contains significant new information ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... ) and (b) it can support a substantive HN discussion. Neither of those seems true here so I don't think it's a hard call. There have been countless threads on the generic to…

The fact that this is being done to cover up the past of a specific person who's an employee of reddit strikes me as novel, weren't the previous examples about much more general topics like covid denial?

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#373

Post by dandellion » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 10:19 AM UTC

howinteresting wrote: post #272

slibhb wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are universalizing your lived experience. This invalidates the lived experiences of other people, who differ from you. Ironically, misapplication of moral universalizing is what leads people to be bigoted against trans people in the first place.

You are still incorrect about no one calling transition a regrettable outcome.

When they say:

> No one is saying transition is a "regrettable outcome".

It's safe to assume it's meant in the context of the ongoing thread. Not as in "No on in the world is ever saying that", but "No one here has said such thing". It's better to direct your arguments to an individual in the thread, not an official representative of the collective internet.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#374

Post by Causality1 » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 11:30 AM UTC

krrrh wrote: post #358

howinteresting wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously cis and trans women are not completely indistinguishable -- they have overlapping but distinct medical needs, for example. This is a strawman position. However, GCs tend to believe in an oppositionally sexist view of the world, where your assigned sex at birth puts you in one of two firm categories, and any sort of crossing over or breach between categories is impossible. That's how GCs construct their cate…

> puts you in one of two firm categories, and any sort of crossing over or breach between categories is impossible I find this debate interesting so I try to read a lot of different perspectives. I think the /r/gendercritical position was more nuanced than you make it out. They think that while humans can’t change their sex, rigid ideas of what it is to be a man or woman are one of the things that causes some people…

Indeed. I find myself more and more thinking that gender is a fiction we made up to get people not to harass us for behaving a certain way. Which is fine. It's a handy shortcut. I just think you're allowed to not be an extremist. You don't have to be in favor of bathroom door genital inspections to think it's a little unfair for Fallon Fox to get into the ring with cis women and break their skulls.

People won't let you hold that kind of opinion, though. You'll just get flamed from both sides.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#375

Post by zozbot234 » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 11:41 AM UTC

howinteresting wrote: post #362

implements wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overlap is because they’re both human, not both forms of women. Sexism is “prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it primarily affects women and girls. It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles, and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another”. GCs reject sexism. Rejecting sexism doesn’t mean rejecting the realit…

These are all specific constructed definitions of "sex" that do a poor job of modeling the reality of variation in humanity. There is no fundamental law of the universe which says that sex must be defined through gametes or chromosomes. In any case, all this definition stuff is secondary to how our actual lives are affected by this nonsense. As a transfeminine person I've been using women's bathrooms for many years w…

> I've been using women's bathrooms for many years without incident, but most GCs would want to make that illegal

Doesn't CA have a mandate for single-occupancy, non-gendered bathrooms, which are anyway more inclusive of genderfluid folks and those who do not identify with the gender binary?

> Many GCs think I shouldn't have access to healthcare for my breasts.

Well, that's quite bad. Those GC folks should be made aware that male breast cancer is a thing too.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#376

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 12:36 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #355

phpnode wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if there's an interesting conversation to be had it's about governance and transparency in how online spaces are moderated, given the depth of their influence, the broadness of their reach and the relative power wielded by those who control the platform (hello there!). Unfortunately that conversation is mostly absent from these threads.

That conversation in general has been and continues to be had over and over again on HN, so even if this is a good occasion for substantive discussion (which I doubt), it's not as if there won't be countless opportunities in the future.

[deleted]

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#377

Post by 4AoZqrH2fsk5UB » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 12:41 PM UTC

stonecraftwolf wrote: post #215

slibhb wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a contradiction in terms. Supporting trans people means believing that transition is not some sort of "regrettable outcome". No one is saying transition is a "regrettable outcome". What people are saying is that some people may think they are trans and then change their minds later. In these cases a watchful-waiting approach is better because it may allow the person to avoid life-altering decisions like sur…

Something like less than 1% of trans people regret transition, and of those half of them regret it because of social costs, i.e., bigotry from transphobes, and another big chunk regret that they transitioned as binary when they were in fact non-binary or vice versa. Fundamental to your argument is the idea that we should not trust trans people about their lives or their feelings. It’s bigotry. Whether you’re aware of…

> something like less than 1%

Could you ping me to where you see those numbers? I know data is tough to come by but the sorts of numbers I see, as someone who doesn’t follow this topic closely, are much higher:

> Such “desistance” appears to be common. At least half a dozen medical studies show that between 61% and 98% of children presenting with gender-related distress were reconciled to their natal sex before adulthood. However, all these studies looked at children with early-onset dysphoria.

https://www.economist.com/international/2020/12/12/an-englis...

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#378

Post by ng-user » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

Is this Reddit as a whole or specifically /r/UKPolitics?

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#379

Post by howinteresting » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #375

howinteresting wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all specific constructed definitions of "sex" that do a poor job of modeling the reality of variation in humanity. There is no fundamental law of the universe which says that sex must be defined through gametes or chromosomes. In any case, all this definition stuff is secondary to how our actual lives are affected by this nonsense. As a transfeminine person I've been using women's bathrooms for many years w…

> I've been using women's bathrooms for many years without incident, but most GCs would want to make that illegal Doesn't CA have a mandate for single-occupancy, non-gendered bathrooms, which are anyway more inclusive of genderfluid folks and those who do not identify with the gender binary? > Many GCs think I shouldn't have access to healthcare for my breasts. Well, that's quite bad. Those GC folks should be made aw…

We, having female breasts, get breast cancer at much higher rates than cis men.

CA has a mandate that all single-stall rooms be all-gender, but there's no mandate to build them.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#380

Post by howinteresting » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

implements wrote: post #371

howinteresting wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all specific constructed definitions of "sex" that do a poor job of modeling the reality of variation in humanity. There is no fundamental law of the universe which says that sex must be defined through gametes or chromosomes. In any case, all this definition stuff is secondary to how our actual lives are affected by this nonsense. As a transfeminine person I've been using women's bathrooms for many years w…

Well I doubt anyone here doesn’t understand where babies come from, and hence what sexual biology is about. You are a male person who wishes to present and live as (I assume) a stereotypically feminine woman. As I understand trans ideology, living and presenting is inadequate - the dysphoria / drive to be a woman - requires affirmed acceptance of full womanhood. This brings transwomen into direct identity conflict wi…

No, I don't present as a stereotypicallly feminine woman. I don't have long hair, I don't wear dresses, I don't have many interests typically associated with women, I didn't play with dolls (or trucks) as a kid—instead I played with hex editors and DRM protections on software. But my body clearly needs to be estrogen-dominant to work well, and I very strongly prefer they or she pronouns.

"Trans people want to reinforce gender stereotypes" is yet another GC lie based on selection pressure from the medical gatekeeping we've endured for decades. Even today, in parts of Europe and in much of the world you'll be expected to wear a dress and makeup to your doctor's appointments, otherwise you won't get access to the hormones your body needs. (The SF Bay Area where I live doesn't have that as much.)

I want to repeat: Cis people are the ones who reinforce gender stereotypes, not us.

There are many trans women for whom femininity is not an important aspect of their individuality as well. There are trans butch dykes. Of course there are. Once you start looking at us as human you'll see that we have as much variation within our group as anyone else.