Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#371

Post by JKCalhoun » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #359

JKCalhoun wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just a more lax unemployment policy. I worry that if you give everyone $1000/month: 1) you cannot live on $1000/month so it is an empty gesture 2) rent goes up $1000/month nationwide so it is an even emptier gesture

> 2) rent goes up $1000/month nationwide so it is an even emptier gesture Do you also expect food, transportation, entertainment, and technology costs to go up $1000/month nationwide? Rent goes up due to a lack of available apartments or houses in the area. If public policy is geared toward allowing development of sufficient housing for the people wanting to live in a place, that will have a far bigger impact on rent…

Not an economist. I liken it to the cost of tuition having gone up, perhaps because of the availability of student loans and the willingness (need?) of students to borrow to get a higher education.

Rent is the one you are sort of locked into. Food, etc, you have choices ... moving, much harder to shop around.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#372

Post by 627467 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #306

dominotw wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my wife sometimes has to do this on the weekends ( non tech job) and sometimes i have to do on call stuff on weekends. Why are you making this about gender?

To be fair, the above attitude is more common among my male colleagues.

In this is also how gender discrimination perpetuates.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#373

Post by JKCalhoun » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #334

JKCalhoun wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just a more lax unemployment policy. I worry that if you give everyone $1000/month: 1) you cannot live on $1000/month so it is an empty gesture 2) rent goes up $1000/month nationwide so it is an even emptier gesture

It seems pretty complex to design a version of a lax unemployment policy that eliminates steep cliffs that might disincentivize working, is fair, and also doesn't let anybody slip through the cracks. How do you handle someone quitting voluntarily, or retiring early, or starting their own business which doesn't pay them yet, or only paying themselves a small amount, or working a part-time job on the side while focusin…

I agree it is complex, I have no answers. Certainly though if the requirement for unemployment is that you have to be actively looking for employment ... sort of nixes it for the want-to-be entrepreneurs.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#374

Post by sergiosgc » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:20 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #353

sergiosgc wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me give you the perspective from the other side of the trench: I never ask my employees for overtime, never control their work hours. The typical work week that organically arises out of this is about 35 hours. I would absolutely fire anyone who would close the laptop for the weekend and left a critical operation pending on Friday. It's about work ethics and personal responsibility of the outcome of personal work…

I'm on an oncall rotation. I get paid 1/3rd my normal salaried rate for all the time outside of normal working hours that I'm expected to be available to respond to critical issues. Note that I get paid this regardless of whether there actually are critical issues. Do you have this kind of system set up? If not, do you make it clear when you're hiring people that you're expecting them to occasionally do what is effec…

Events like these are exceedingly rare, to the rate of less than one event per year. They have been treated on a case by case basis. When it is personal mismanagement of time, there is no compensation. When people cover for systemic failures, we've historically awarded two vacation days per day used (one is a replacement, the other a compensation), or equivalent monetary compensation.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#375

Post by JKCalhoun » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

serverholic wrote: post #320

freeone3000 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing is the big one mentioned, and it does not allow for any further economies of scale than already exist. Rent rises based on the prevailing salary of the area -- house prices as well, since they represent the years of rental income. It's not even necessarily a supply issue, since Seattle has more empty houses than it has homeless people! Prices simply rise to whatever the market can bear. So under the current s…

The implication in his argument was that prices will increase in general. My argument is that we don't know what the overall effect will be. Edit: In other words, if housing increases by $10 but the cost of other stuff decreases by $20 then you still come out ahead.

You're right of course, but also way more optimistic than me.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#376

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

ck425 wrote: post #173

izacus wrote: post #99

This is an amazing post - it describes exactly how bad manager looks like and what kind of expectations does he have from his employees. No emergency PTO (despite being a benefit), ability to just get rid of people who don't suit him, cursing at people, not having a proper work/life balance. It just keeps on giving. And all for what? A mapping application having features which really don't save lives 99% of the time.

I agree with all of that except the swearing part. Is swearing in work a big deal in US? I'm Scottish (even worse Glaswegian) so perhaps have a skewed view.

It depends entirely on the context. If swears are being used in a way that even remotely touches on other employees or the company's products, then it's a huge morale drag.

Yelling out "Fuck!" because you just stubbed your toe on your desk, or because you've been stuck on a frustrating problem for awhile that you just can't solve, is fine. Saying "Why does team X's product suck so fucking much?" or "Why do you keep making this same fucking mistake?" is a huge problem.

It's not exactly about the swears per se, but about being overly negative / anti-collaborative. The OP post gives off the vibe of someone who prides themselves on being "brutally honest" in their feedback but which in fact really just comes off as being an asshole to most people.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#377

Post by chrisweekly » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

kryogen1c wrote: post #325

asidiali wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This - the mental overhead of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours - especially with a pushy employer or coworkers with no work life balance themselves. You can’t cut steel at home after dinner no matter how hard you try if you don’t have the tools. Conversely, I’m sure you have a computer, can you just login to GitHub for two seconds to review this PR I submitted at 9pm...

> the mental overheard of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours this is very ignorant. the ability to leave work at work is a personality trait. the job, or type of job, has little to do with it. software development is not some exceptionally difficult thing that tortures and haunts developers.

Ignoring your last sentence (which doesn't merit response) to disagree with "the type of job has little to do with [the ability to leave work at work]".

Thought work is fundamentally different from physical labor. Work:life boundaries are so permeable. Any but the most ignorant, junior, "code-monkey" -type developer spends a large portion of their cognitive resources on solving problems (as opposed to strictly sitting at the keyboard writing code like a factory worker). Compartmentalization may well be a personality trait or learned skill, but setting down physical tools in the shop before commuting home is completely different from a software dev's home office and potentially round-the-clock work cycles.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#378

Post by harryposner » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

whycombagator wrote: post #370

> It is practically impossible to fire someone for the basic reason that you don't need this role any more or there is a better person out there or just plain old - you are not doing a great job. This neuters managers and does not lead to great teams, driven by mission, pushing each other to do better. > I was the weirdo who wanted to push things fast and expected that some level of personal sacrifice when needed. I…

I didn’t read it as firing old people, but rather firing people for the plain old reason that they’re not doing a good job.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#379

Post by aikinai » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

whycombagator wrote: post #370

> It is practically impossible to fire someone for the basic reason that you don't need this role any more or there is a better person out there or just plain old - you are not doing a great job. This neuters managers and does not lead to great teams, driven by mission, pushing each other to do better. > I was the weirdo who wanted to push things fast and expected that some level of personal sacrifice when needed. I…

That sentence is very poorly written and I also read it wrong the first time, but he’s not advocating to fire old people. He’s saying the “plain old” reason for firing people, “you are not doing a great job.”

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#380

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #343

CydeWeys wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing is a normal economic market that is responsive to changes on both the demand and supply side. The major problem with housing in this country is that restrictive policies have put a damper on housing supply so that it is not able to keep up with demand. Seattle has a normal amount of vacancies in it. It could have 2X the housing (and thus have a lot more people living in Seattle paying lower rents) and still h…

A "normal number" of housing vacancies would only make sense if everyone was housed. Housing isn't a voluntary good, where you'll expect some unsold stock and you'll expect not everyone to buy one -- everyone needs a place to live, and will spend as much as they have to in order to get housing of minimal quality. The entire concept of a "normal" number of vacancies doesn't make sense here.

There absolutely is a "normal" amount of vacancies because it takes time for a house to sell, for someone to move out and then someone else to move in, for a new lease to be signed, etc. It's exactly the same dynamic with employment; there is a "normal" amount of a unemployment (a low single digit number) that is impossible to improve past, simply because it takes time to find a job. Housing is no different.

Also, most of the homeless are unhoused because they either can't afford a home or they have mental illness/drug addiction issues that makes them incapable of earning money in order to be able to afford a house. It doesn't matter if housing is vacant if you don't have the means to pay the rent, or if they won't even consider you for a lease anyway because you don't have a reliable source of income.