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Intel Problems

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Re: Intel Problems

#371

Post by eyelidlessness »

rauhl wrote: post #263
ashtonkem wrote: post #10

I think one day we’re going to wake up and discover that AWS mostly runs on Graviton (ARM) and not x86. And on that day intel’s troubles will go from future to present. My standing theory is that the m1 will accelerate it. Obviously all the wholly managed AWS services (Dynamo, Kinesis, S3, etc.) can change over silently, but the issue is EC2. I have a MBP, as do all of my engineers. Within a few years all of these ma…

> I have a MBP, as do all of my engineers. Within a few years all of these machines will age out and be replaced with m1 powered machines. At that point the idea of developing on ARM and deploying on x86 will be unpleasant Is it not at least somewhat possible that at least some of those Apple laptops will age out and be replaced with GNU/Linux laptops? Agreed that developing on ARM and deploying on x86 is unpleasant,…

> Is it not at least somewhat possible that at least some of those Apple laptops will age out and be replaced with GNU/Linux laptops?

Some definitely will. Significant enough to assume they're not well-situated other-configs? Probably not. Even the most VIM- and CLI-oriented devs I know still prefer a familiar GUI for normal day to day work. Are they all going Ubuntu? Or Elementary? I mean, I welcome any migration that doesn't fracture the universe. But I don't think it's likely.

Re: Intel Problems

#372

Post by eyelidlessness »

optimuspaul wrote: post #366
mulmen wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approximately zero MacBooks will be replaced by Linux laptops in the next couple years. There is no new story in the Linux desktop world to make a Linux Laptop more appealing. That people already selected to develop on MacOS and deploy to Linux tells you all you need to know there. MacPorts and Homebrew exist. Both support M1 more or less and support is improving. Big Sur is a Big Disaster but hopefully this is just…

> Big Sur is a Big Disaster I may be naive but that seems like hyperbole. I updated to Big Sur shortly after is was released. It was a little bumpy here and there, but not more than any other update. I'd even argue it has been as smooth or smoother than any of my Linux major upgrades in the past 20 years.

I haven't updated but my impression has been that this is a "tock" release, as in "yeah we shipped some big UI changes but we'll refine them, very little of substance changed in the underlying systems". And that's great, and I look forward to being a medium-early adopter before the worst of the UI gets a big refresh next year.

Re: Intel Problems

#373

Post by eyelidlessness »

narrator wrote: post #285
rauhl wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a MBP, as do all of my engineers. Within a few years all of these machines will age out and be replaced with m1 powered machines. At that point the idea of developing on ARM and deploying on x86 will be unpleasant Is it not at least somewhat possible that at least some of those Apple laptops will age out and be replaced with GNU/Linux laptops? Agreed that developing on ARM and deploying on x86 is unpleasant,…

This is why you run your environment on Linux and MacOS in Docker, so you don't have these screwy deployment issues caused by MacOs vs Linux issues.

Developing in macOS against Docker is beyond painful. 10-100x build times is not a reasonable cost for platform compat.

Re: Intel Problems

#374

Post by MangoCoffee »

Daho0n wrote: post #358
MangoCoffee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As for moves again at Taiwan, China hasn't given up that prize. CCP hasn't give up since KMT high-tailed to Taiwan. for more than 40+ yrs American cozy up with the Chinese govrt and doing business with China. American told Taiwan govrt not to "make trouble" but we all know China is the one who make all the troubles with military threat and flying aircraft over Taiwan, day in and day out. Taiwan have build up a impre…

> we all know China is the one who make all the troubles with military threat and flying aircraft over Taiwan, day in and day out. As they are fully well allowed to as Taiwan is their own territory. You and I might disagree but out of the 195 countries on earth the only ones who recognize Taiwan is a country are these few: Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Belize, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent And The Gre…

>As they are fully well allowed to as Taiwan is their own territory.

Taiwan is a fully functional country. it doesn't pay taxes to China. its military is not under China. a lot of countries doesn't even have visa requirement for Taiwanese. Taiwanese passport is better than Chinese

>It isn't the US. It gains influence in much more subtle and intelligent ways than bombing people

LOL. China so intelligently gains influences(?). Taiwanese voted DPP's Tsai and gave her the largest votes in the history of Taiwan. Taiwanese have time and time again voted against China "influences"

Re: Intel Problems

#375

Post by eightysixfour »

kickopotomus wrote: post #330
ZeroCool2u wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is not the success of AMD after splitting, but the complete retreat of Global Foundries from the SOTA process node. If this happens again with an Intel split then we have only TSMC left, off the coast of mainland China in Taiwan, in the middle of a game of thermonuclear tug of war between the West and China. While Capitalism will likely be part of the solution, through subsidizes for Intel or some ot…

> The geopolitical ramifications of completely centralizing the only leading process node in such a sensitive area between the world's super powers cannot be understated. This is a fair point but I think it will be less of a concern once TSMC's 5nm fab in Arizona comes online[1]. Samsung is also in the process of building a 5nm fab in Korea[2]. Geopolitically, Korea may still be a minor concern, but much less so than…

I’m pretty sure the Arizona fab is comparatively very very small, although a step in the right direction.

Re: Intel Problems

#376

Post by fomine3 »

acoard wrote: post #65
ashtonkem wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emulation is no way to estimate performance.

Sure, but as a counter example Docker performance on Mac has historically been abysmal[0][1], but everyone on Mac I know still develops using it. We ignore the performance hit on dev machines, knowing it won't affect prod (Linux servers). I don't see why this pattern would fail to hold, but am open to new perspectives. [0] https://dev.to/ericnograles/why-is-docker-on-macos-so-much-w... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/do…

Abysmal Docker performance on non-Linux is mainly because of filesystem isn't native, not by CPU virtualization.

Re: Intel Problems

#377

Post by mulmen »

interpol_p wrote: post #370
mulmen wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big Sur has me more worried about iOS-ification than ever before. The UI is a train wreck. It looks designed for touch and I have no idea why. I guess Sidecar? They changed a ton about the UI in Big Sur, none of it for the better as far as I can tell. They took away even more choice, I can't have a "classic" desktop experience. My biggest frustration is that they were willing to make such drastic changes to the deskt…

I quite like the Big Sur UI and definitely don't consider it a train wreck. I've been a Mac user since the PowerBook G4, and the M1 MacBook Air with Big Sur is the best "desktop" computer I've ever owned. I have it connected to a beautiful 32" display, it's fast, silent and I find the UI very usable I see a strong vision in Big Sur, one that pulls macOS visually into line with iOS, but there are a lot of rough edges…

Visually it is a dumpster fire. Window borders are inconsistently sized, the close/minimize/full screen buttons aren’t consistently placed.

There’s an enormous amount of wasted space. You need that 32” monitor. My 16” RMBP now has as much usable space as my 13”.

Keyboard navigation is bizarre. Try this:

1) Open Mail.

2) Cmd W.

3) Cmd 1 (or is it Cmd 0?!, hint: it’s whatever Messages isn’t!)

4) Without using your mouse select a message in your inbox.

5) Without using your mouse navigate to a folder under your inbox.

6) Without using your mouse navigate to an inbox in another account.

All of this is possible in Catalina and earlier with zero confusion (selections are highlighted clearly) and can be done “backwards” using shift. In Big Sur some of it is actually impossible and you have to just guess where you start.

When native apps aren’t even consistent in their behavior and appearance that is a trainwreck.

You may be able to read the tea leaves and see a grand vision here but I have to use a half-baked desktop environment until Not-Jony Ive is satisfied they have reminded me they are not Jony Ive. To them I say, trust me, I noticed.

Re: Intel Problems

#378

Post by mulmen »

optimuspaul wrote: post #366
mulmen wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approximately zero MacBooks will be replaced by Linux laptops in the next couple years. There is no new story in the Linux desktop world to make a Linux Laptop more appealing. That people already selected to develop on MacOS and deploy to Linux tells you all you need to know there. MacPorts and Homebrew exist. Both support M1 more or less and support is improving. Big Sur is a Big Disaster but hopefully this is just…

> Big Sur is a Big Disaster I may be naive but that seems like hyperbole. I updated to Big Sur shortly after is was released. It was a little bumpy here and there, but not more than any other update. I'd even argue it has been as smooth or smoother than any of my Linux major upgrades in the past 20 years.

It is mostly functional but visually a mess. “Better than Linux upgrades” is a pretty low bar.

Re: Intel Problems

#379

Post by mulmen »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #372
optimuspaul wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Big Sur is a Big Disaster I may be naive but that seems like hyperbole. I updated to Big Sur shortly after is was released. It was a little bumpy here and there, but not more than any other update. I'd even argue it has been as smooth or smoother than any of my Linux major upgrades in the past 20 years.

I haven't updated but my impression has been that this is a "tock" release, as in "yeah we shipped some big UI changes but we'll refine them, very little of substance changed in the underlying systems". And that's great , and I look forward to being a medium-early adopter before the worst of the UI gets a big refresh next year.

Yeah that’s a great description.

I upgraded my personal laptop and it’s so bad I’m holding off on my work laptop until I am forced to upgrade.

Re: Intel Problems

#380

Post by ogre_codes »

alsetmusic wrote: post #363
ogre_codes wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it not at least somewhat possible that at least some of those Apple laptops will age out and be replaced with GNU/Linux laptops? Has Linux desktop share been increasing lately? I'm not sure why a newer Mac with better CPU options is going to result in increasing Linux share. If anything, it's likely to be neutral or favor the Mac with it's newer/ faster CPU. > But frankly I believe Apple have lost ground UI-wise…

> Has Linux desktop share been increasing lately? I run on Mac for desktop, Linux for projects. I don’t know that more people have been switching than before, but I thought the author of this[0] piece illustrated well that it’s easier than ever. That said, the author states that they opt not to have a phone. That’s much less lock-in than most of the market. [0] https://orta.io/on/migrating/from/apple

Fully agree, seems like a good chunk of developer focused software is cross platform at this point.
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