Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with any model where ad performance is based on how much cash you can throw down is that scams are much more profitable typically than legitimate services. A scam page can afford $5/click if it's scamming 1% of its clicks for $5000. Bidding on clicks is just a race to the bottom in terms of quality. We should instead be using user metrics to evaluate and punish ads that lead to pages users regret navigati…
The solution to that is right at the start of this thread: > "Never allow dynamic ad content! Ads should be individually approved by publishers and not subject to change after approval."
“35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
371–380 of 398 posts
Re: “35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay. > The best way to use the tool is to have it click between rarely and sometimes What you don't realize is most of the users are dumb and set it to maximum click through rate, because they think it is some form of achievement. Going against the advertising mafia, fooling Google, etc. To load the ads you need to click on, it has to contact the adserver. If it contacts the adserver, what's the point of an adblocke…
Hello. My name is [[h0p3]], and [[I aim|IA2DYJ]] to be a friend and an ally. I have looked through your history, and I can see it is my honor to meet you. Thank you for agreeing to speak with me. I admire your fervor and candor, nomad, and I can see that we have quite a bit in common (for example, I despise AMP with a passion, and you seem passionate about the topic too). I'm probably not as skilled with [[computers|…
I'm curious. Is it just your way of mocking me? Just wanted to know.
> You have not defended this claim
I do not have any proof of account banning, but I have been completely blocked by Google recaptcha when adnauseam is installed because I looked like a bot. I have been blocked twice.
> There are number of reasons one might use an adblocker, right?
Every reason (mobile data consumption, privacy, and page speed) can be achieved through uBlock origin. The only 'feature' adnauseam has over uBO is the automatic clicking.
> just because someone can use a tool in a stupid way doesn't mean any use of the tool is stupid
The problem is not that people can use this in a stupid way. People are using this in a stupid way. They set it to full click through rate and feel proud of standing up against the advertising mafia and are like 'Oh look at me, I'm faking my interests. I'm fooling Google and Facebook!!! So clever!'
Re: “35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
#373I find it so weird idea that people really click on ads. I don't know if I've ever done so (intentionally). As such I would have expected more like 90% of clicks to be fraudulent.
I used to be like that, but for whatever reason a significant proportion of my adds these days are from smaller, local companies - a vineyard or clothing company for instance. I click on these adds, and if I like what I see, I'll buy it. I feel a lot more comfortable supporting small businesses that someone has poured their heart and sole into. I want to see these companies thrive, and if targeted advertising is the…
Re: “35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reddit has been running ads for over a decade. If they are this far in and not doing basic fraud mitigation, something is wrong.
That depends on the scale though right? Reddit ads were for a long time very poor. They've become a lot more feasible for many companies in the last few years, as Reddit has also become a lot more mainstream. Also we don't know if they are doing basic fraud mitigation. It's possible they are doing plenty of fraud mitigation, but that it's just not advanced enough.
Re: “35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shouldn't ad buyers just assume that the high fraud rates are baked into the price? If Reddit gets rid of fraudulent clicks (whatever that means), then the ad price will probably go up.
Yep, reddit ads CPC is 2-5x cheaper than FB / Google. So assuming half of it is real fraud, the likely outcome of removing the fraud is just that CPC would double. Still better as misleading metrics are bad, but likely no real net change in cost per real return.
Re: “35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hello. My name is [[h0p3]], and [[I aim|IA2DYJ]] to be a friend and an ally. I have looked through your history, and I can see it is my honor to meet you. Thank you for agreeing to speak with me. I admire your fervor and candor, nomad, and I can see that we have quite a bit in common (for example, I despise AMP with a passion, and you seem passionate about the topic too). I'm probably not as skilled with [[computers|…
> Hello. My name is [[h0p3]], and [[I aim|IA2DYJ]] to be a friend and an ally. I have looked through your history, and I can see it is my ... I'm curious. Is it just your way of mocking me? Just wanted to know. > You have not defended this claim I do not have any proof of account banning, but I have been completely blocked by Google recaptcha when adnauseam is installed because I looked like a bot. I have been blocke…
No. I'm not mocking you. I am correcting you though (on a number of issues at this point). While I'm putting on a clinic here, I'm not trying to have fun at your expense. I'm quite serious. Your argument is not sound, and I'm trying to help you fix it (and your discourse), homie. Please pay attention.
If you really are curious and want to know: https://philosopher.life/ - I thought you might be inspired to think about my history given both how I thought about yours (and looking through your history, I see you've failed to learn from promoting your thesis more than once) and because you incorrectly presumed you knew what I didn't recognize (surely you will take the opportunity to gain perspective and context in coming to understand who you are speaking with). In any case, even this conversation will be finding its way into my wiki.
> I do not have any proof of account banning, but I have been completely blocked by Google recaptcha when adnauseam is installed because I looked like a bot. I have been blocked twice.
Okay, you'll agree you are retracting one of your original claims then, right? (Normally, it's polite to concede where you've lost in the argument. That's part of arguing in [[good]] [[faith]].)
> Every reason (mobile data consumption, privacy, and page speed) can be achieved through uBlock origin. The only 'feature' adnauseam has over uBO is the automatic clicking.
Obviously, I argued that the automatic clicking is a reason to use it in at least some cases. uBlock Origin does not cover every use case for dealing with ads.
You forgot to mention one of the primary reasons I gave: it prevents the display of ads. Now, look at the exact words you wrote in your argument: "If it contacts the adserver, what's the point of an adblocker?" So, are you agreeing that your counterpoint is nullified here, right? I demonstrated to you that there is still a reasonable point to using an adblocker that still contacts an adserver. That's at least two claims you've trotted out that turned out to be unjustified.
Don't you think a little humility on your part is in order here, my friend? Consider the possibility that you are wrong, please. We all make mistakes.
Also, since you continue to utter falsehoods as though they count as support for your thesis: that isn't the only additional feature that AdNauseam provides, but I'll agree it is far and away the primary one. Moreover, you have yet to demonstrate that the feature is conceptually and always stupid: the burden of proof is on you here. I've already given you the counterexample.
Lastly, don't get me wrong: I'm a huge fan of uBlock Origin. When in doubt, that is what I recommend. There are people to whom I recommend AdNauseam though. There's a time and a place for the tool.
> The problem is not that people can use this in a stupid way. People are using this in a stupid way. They set it to full click through rate and feel proud of standing up against the advertising mafia and are like 'Oh look at me, I'm faking my interests. I'm fooling Google and Facebook!!! So clever!'
Hrm. Look at your logic again. Here's a substitution to show you why the argument doesn't have the validity you hope:
"The problem is not that people can use [a motorized vehicle] in a stupid way. People //are// using [motorized vehicles] in a stupid way." Note how my counterpoint clarifies how just because some people use a tool, be it a motorized vehicle or AdNauseam, in a way that is stupid doesn't mean that all uses of the tool are stupid. Using a motorized vehicle is not stupid in at least some cases, and the same is true of AdNauseam. Your thesis is overcommitted (try stating it differently).
Perhaps you might try to argue about how the average use of the tool is harmful, but you've not given that argument either. I'm prepared to take you to task there too, of course.
Note that you're ignoring multiple arguments I've made here. C'mon dude, do your due diligence, go ahead and walk through it line by line, charitably, please (just like I did for you). You might find your argument is substantially weaker when you actually try to address what I've said instead of sweeping it under the rug and repeating yourself.
Let us assume for the sake of argument that using "full click through rate" is stupid (and, problematically, you've not established even that, and I've already given you a reason that it isn't necessarily stupid). There is at least one person who doesn't use the "full click through rate" for the sake of costing advertisers money, and this counts as a non-stupid and non-trivially valuable function that uBlock Origin does not provide (note that this wasn't the only reason I gave for the value of false clickthroughs). Thus, even if I granted that "full click through rate" use was stupid (and I obviously didn't), your thesis does not stand. There is a counterexample.
You continue to offer an ad hominem attack on a strawmanned user, as though they represent all possible users and uses of this tool. Preference falsification is a weak aspect of the tool, and you're ignoring the strength of it. Have the integrity to look at the other reasons I've shown you, please. You might still want to argue that the reasons I've given you are stupid, but you've conveniently ignored addressing them instead. So far, at best, your argument is really against some users of the tool rather than the tool itself.
Note, also, how using the tool stupidly (or even just ignorantly) to some degree does not imply it's stupid to use the tool. You need to provide a reason for us to think the former implies the latter, and you haven't. It feels like you've had more trouble with the tool than most people (maybe you should take other people's anecdotal evidence into account if you expect them to take yours into account).
You may find it useful to at least attempt to reason out loud about how AdNauseam may function as both a protester's tool and a proof-of-concept educational object.
Re: “35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
#377I may or may not have participated in click fraud in 1997 with DoubleClick by forging source IP headers and going through a proxy ... that I may or may not have been running. I can only imagine how much more sophisticated click fraud has become today. Even if you raise that bar, I suspect a vast % of clicks are probably fraud anyway.
Re: “35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
#378The suggestion "Don't charge the same IP address more than once in a certain time period (e.g. 24 hours)" is clearly broken. For people at work in larger companies, there can be thousands of users that all appear to have the same IP address. You can only charge once per day for all of them? As the reddit posting points out, there are plenty of other ways to determine that a click is fake (no css or images loaded, etc…
Re: “35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
#379How does the fraudster make money on reddit ads frauds? Reddit operates the site, so don’t any money go to them?
Re: “35-50% of clicks on Reddit Ads are fraudulent”
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
If there's no user information/tracking, what are the chances that any of those ads will be served to a potential customer for the small business? The GP's bottom line is that nobody except large consumer brands should bother advertising.
This is a theoretical interesting point. But it does not withstand even cursory empirical research. Open a newspaper. Look at page two. What do you see? Ads for local businesses. Watch local TV. More ads for small businesses. Okay, now go to the websites for those newspapers and TV stations. No local businesses. Literally all scam ads.
I was like "ok, is that really true" so I went and checked, and by golly, you're right. And it's 50-50 the "scam ad" I got is a direct result of a doctor leaking my medical records.
The whole online ad industry should be regulated out of existence.