Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#371

Post by missedthecue » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 2:15 AM UTC

kiliantics wrote: post #153

chrisseaton wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know of anyone who disputes the killing of Wilkie happened or claims that it was somehow exaggerated. As a taxi driver he was also not a police officer or an agent of the state. He was not armed or causing violence to anyone. He was just driving someone who didn't agree with the union to work. So they killed him.

So you have a single example of an (accidental) killing by unions. Now look up how many people have been killed by corporations for striking.

in the last couple decades?

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#372

Post by missedthecue » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

caoilte wrote: post #106

chrisseaton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Union activists in the UK have a reputation of being bullies, and in some cases in the past they've used physical violence to try to get people to do things their way. At the height of union fever back in the 80s it got so bad at one point that union activists dropped a concrete block on someone's head from a bridge because he was trying to get into work and they thought he should be striking (David Wilkie.) I would…

Love the way you've got to reach back literally 36 years to find one example of union violence. The reputation that British unions actually have is for getting shat on by bullying employers.

Pro union people reach back 136 years to find their evidence of violence so i don't see the issue

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#373

Post by hehebbssjj » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #323

celticninja wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they offenders were arrested, tried and punished. The difference here is the police are never subject to the same justice.

And why are police never punished, because police unions. Unions in their modern form are granted special privileges by the government and use those privileges to extort society. There is nothing wrong with people joining groups, collective bargaining, etc -- the problem is that they are given special privileges by the state.

Police unions have no solidarity with workers. They're groups that exist only to protect themselves, and they're happy to suppress strikes when it serves them. It's facile to consider them as part of labour unions.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/news/news-des...

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#374

Post by m0llusk » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

saddlerustle wrote: post #33

Communitivity wrote: post #14

This does not surprise me. I've been waiting to see corporate intelligence agencies pop up. When you think about it, Amazon had an operating budget last year of around $309 billion [1], already 75% of Germany's at $399 billion [2]. Facebook has an operating budget of around $35 billion, but that is still enough to field a small intelligence arm. Also, that is Facebook..not all Facebook properties combined. [1] https:…

Most of Amazon's revenue is retail sales. Buying a product for $10 and selling it for $10.10 is not comparable to $10 of government spending. After deducting cost of sales and cost of fulfilment you're left with ~$60 billion.

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that the bulk of their profits are from Amazon Web Services. That is potentially a factor that contributes to this skewed and awkward framing of labor.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#375

Post by missedthecue » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 2:22 AM UTC

Nacdor wrote: post #145

refresher wrote: post #48

The relevant excerpts from the job listings: >Analysts must be capable of engaging and informing L7+ ER Principals (attorney stakeholders) on sensitive topics that are highly confidential, including labor organizing threats against the company, establish and track funding and activities connected to corporate campaigns (internal and external) against Amazon, and provide sophisticated analysis on these topics >Analyst…

> labor organizing threats against the company If anyone needed confirmation that unions are beneficial to employees, Amazon just handed it to them on a silver platter.

I don't think people doubted that... but that doesn't necessarily imply that they are a net good. For instance, the Chicago Plumbers Union was fantastic for the plumbers but ensured the city's water supply was poisoned for decades at an increased cost to citizens.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#376

Post by csours » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #374

saddlerustle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of Amazon's revenue is retail sales. Buying a product for $10 and selling it for $10.10 is not comparable to $10 of government spending. After deducting cost of sales and cost of fulfilment you're left with ~$60 billion.

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that the bulk of their profits are from Amazon Web Services. That is potentially a factor that contributes to this skewed and awkward framing of labor.

You are both right.

The bulk of PROFITS is in AWS.

The bulk of ECONOMIC ACTIVITY is in amazon.com sales.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#377

Post by hehebbssjj » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 2:25 AM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #211

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's maybe a bit more subtle. In our industry there's what I call the "California Ideology" (after the classic essay: https://www.metamute.org/editorial/articles/californian-ideo... which is a bit dated but still stands the test of time) At one point this perspective was fairly counter cultural -- computing technology fused with Alvin Toffleresque third wavism, a tinge of libertarianism but without a suit and…

> and while we're "changing the world" it's really not in any egalitarian or progressive way There is a good argument to be made that increasing the GDP is a moral imperative [0]. I know it's increasingly trendy to think all of capitalism is evil and we should tear the whole global economic system down (and to tweet about it from your iPhone while sitting in your air conditioned home, eating your meal delivered by Do…

> As much as it is true that inequality is higher than it should be

I just spent time with a friend who is working two jobs during the pandemic and cannot afford to live on their own in our relatively low cost of living city. They have to ride the bus for 2 hours to get to one job. This isn't even global inequality, this is an order of magnitude income difference between "haves" with high tech jobs that realistically produce no value, and "have nots" who actually make society function.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#378

Post by Consultant32452 » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 2:54 AM UTC

pklausler wrote: post #313

rxhernandez wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, it's not a good idea to talk poorly about your employer in public if you want to keep your job; I've heard of at least a couple cases where someone was fired for "mouthing-off" to their spouse in a public place like a grocery store.

It's not the smartest idea to talk poorly about your employer in private, either. Especially in "confidential" employee surveys.

I keep trying to get the message out. When your employer sends out these surveys, rate everything at the highest level possible. Nothing good can possibly come from giving bad ratings. If your boss/employer can't figure out how to improve things outside of those surveys, they won't figure it out from the survey. All you are doing is creating a bureaucratic headache for your boss which is going to trickle down to you.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#379

Post by cactus2093 » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 2:56 AM UTC

hehebbssjj wrote: post #377

cactus2093 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and while we're "changing the world" it's really not in any egalitarian or progressive way There is a good argument to be made that increasing the GDP is a moral imperative [0]. I know it's increasingly trendy to think all of capitalism is evil and we should tear the whole global economic system down (and to tweet about it from your iPhone while sitting in your air conditioned home, eating your meal delivered by Do…

> As much as it is true that inequality is higher than it should be I just spent time with a friend who is working two jobs during the pandemic and cannot afford to live on their own in our relatively low cost of living city. They have to ride the bus for 2 hours to get to one job. This isn't even global inequality, this is an order of magnitude income difference between "haves" with high tech jobs that realistically…

Well I'm sorry that your friend is having a tough time. But you really didn't respond to, much less refute, any of the main points of what I wrote here.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#380

Post by chmod600 » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 3:13 AM UTC

Avshalom wrote: post #360

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it’s a conspiracy or organized comment ring. The popular narrative around unions is one of the employees versus their employer, but ultimately even the business’ customers or adjacent businesses end up paying some of the price. For an example that will probably hit home for many HN users, try asking your trade show team about dealing with unions. The restrictions imposed by unions on trade show attendees are…

Which is to say the company made you guys do all the work instead of paying people to do it for you.

I don't think money is the issue. For one thing, your company is paying you, so it's not like it's free labor. For another thing, it's often just easier to do stuff yourself.

For some tiny job it takes less effort to just do it than it does to ask someone else, especially when there are all kinds of union rules. One task leads to another, and then you need to find someone else to do that job.