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Level 3 Global Outage

puck.nether.net

371–380 of 393 posts

Re: Level 3 Global Outage

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. How would connection issues cause them to lose? Was it a timed round?

Related: World champion Magnus Carlson recently resigned a match after 4 moves as an act of honor because in his previous match with the same opponent, Magnus won solely due to his opponent having been disconnected.

His opponent, Ding Liren, is from China, and has been especially plagued by unreliable internet since all the high level chess tournaments have moved online. He is currently ranked #3, behind Magnus Carlson and Fabiano Caruana.

Re: Level 3 Global Outage

#373
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to what that link says, the software was not thoroughly tested. Normal testing was bypassed - per management request after a small code change. This was covered in a book (perhaps Safeware, but maybe another one I dont recall) along with the Therac 25, the Ariane V, and several others. Unfortunately these lessons need to be relearned by each generation. See the 737-Max...

For some reason in my university almost every CS class would start with an anecdote about the Therac 25, Ariane V, and/or a couple others as a motivation on why we the class existed. It was sort of a meme. The lessons are definitely still taught, I don't know if they're actually learned of course.. And who knows who actually taught the 737-Max software devs, I don't suppose they're fresh out of uni.

Do management typical typically study Computer Science?

Re: Level 3 Global Outage

#374
post #7
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any one place that would be a good first place to go to check on outages like this? It would be really cool and useful to have an "public Internet health monitoring center"... this could be a foundation that gets some financing from industry that maintains a global internet health monitoring infrastructure and a central site at which all the major players announce outages. It would be pretty cheap and have a…

Until that site also goes down.

Something something anycast.

Re: Level 3 Global Outage

#375
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason in my university almost every CS class would start with an anecdote about the Therac 25, Ariane V, and/or a couple others as a motivation on why we the class existed. It was sort of a meme. The lessons are definitely still taught, I don't know if they're actually learned of course.. And who knows who actually taught the 737-Max software devs, I don't suppose they're fresh out of uni.

Do management typical typically study Computer Science?

Typically yes actually, the director of engineering should always be an engineer. Of course, these are hardware companies so it would probably be some kind of hardware engineer.

Re: Level 3 Global Outage

#376
post #124

Massive reconvergence event in their network, causing edge router bgp sessions to bounce (due to cpu). Right now all their big peers are shutting down sessions with them to give level3s network the ability to reconverge. Prefixes announced to 3356 are frozen on their route reflectors and not getting withdrawn. Edit: if you are a Level3 customer shut your sessions down to them.

What is a reconvergence event? Is that what's described in your last sentence?

BGP operates as a rumor mill. Convergence is the process of all of the rumors settling into a steady state. The rumors are of the form "I can reach this range of IP addresses by going through this path of networks." Networks will refuse to listen to rumors that have themselves in the path, as that would cause traffic to loop.

For each IP range described in the rumor table, each network is free to choose whichever rumor they like best among all they have heard, and send traffic for that range along the described path. Typically this is the shortest, but it doesn't have to be.

ISPs will pass on their favorite rumor for each range, adding themselves to the path of networks. (They must also withdraw the rumors if they become disconnected from their upstream source, or their upstream withdraws it.) Business like hosting providers won't pass on any rumors other than those they started, as no one involved wants them to be a path between the ISPs. (Most ISPs will generally restrict the kinds of rumors their non ISP peers can spread, usually in terms of what IP ranges the peer owns.)

Convergence in BGP is easy in the "good news" direction, and a clusterfuck in the "bad news" direction. When a new range is advertised, or the path is getting shorter, it is smooth sailing, as each network more or less just takes the new route as is and passes it on without hesitation. In the bad news direction, where either something is getting retracted entirely, or the path is going to get much longer, we get something called "path hunting."

As an example of path hunting: Lets say the old paths for a rumor were A-B-C and A-B-D, but C is also connected to D. (C and D spread rumors to each other, but the extended paths A-B-C-D and A-B-D-C are longer, thus not used yet.) A-B gets cut. B tells both C and D that it is withdrawing the rumor. Simultaneously D looks at the rumor A-B-C-D and C looks at the rumor A-B-D-C, and say "well I've got this slightly worse path lying around, might as well use it." Then they spread that rumor to their down streams not realizing that it is vulnerable to the same event that cost them the more direct route. (They have no idea why B withdraw the rumor from them.) The paths, especially when removing an IP range entirely, can get really crazy. (A lot of core internet infrastructure uses delays to prevent the same IP range from updating too often, which tamps down on the crazy path exploration and can actually speed things up in these cases.)

Re: Level 3 Global Outage

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my point; as a subscriber, you can prefix a long distance call with a routing code to avoid, for example, a shut down long distance network without any administrator changes. Routing to the long distance networks is done independently through the local network, so if AT&T's long distance network was having issues, it'd have no impact on your ability to access Verizon's long distance network.

There's actually no technical reason why you couldn't do that with IP (4 or 6); although you'd need a approriately located host to be running a relay daemon[0]. 0: ie something that takes, say, a UDP packet on port NNNN containing a whole raw IPv4 packet, throws away the wrapping, and drops the IPv4 packet onto its own network interface. This is safe - the packet must shrink by a dozen or two bytes with each retransm…

There is, technically, a way for IP packets to signify preferred routes, but due to other (security) reasons it's disabled.

Re: Level 3 Global Outage

#379
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Normal testing was bypassed - per management request after a small code change. That lesson will really never be learned. This happens on a daily basis all over the planet with people who have not been bitten - yet.

That's why the most reliable way to instil this lesson is to instil it into our tools. Automate as much testing as possible, so that bypassing the tests becomes more work than running them.

I disagree, it's in part a people problem - more draconian test suites just make developers more inclined to cheat and they tend to write tests which are not valid or just get the tool passing...

It's more important to visually model and test than to enforce some arbitrary set of rules that don't apply universally - then you have at least the visual impetus of 'this is wrong' or 'I need to test this right'.

A lot of time is spent visually testing UIs and yet these same people struggle with testing the code that matters...

Re: Level 3 Global Outage

#380

Shameless plug: I spent too much time losing precious time when github/npm/cloudflare are going down, until I figure out it was them. So currently working on a project[1] to monitor all the 3rd party stack you use for your services. Hit me up if you want, access I'll give free access for a year+ to some folks to get feedbacks. [1] https://monitory.io

Hi Eric,

Congratulations on your startup!

There is at least one big tool that does exactly the same you wrote. It is called StatusGator https://statusgator.com There are at least 3 much smaller ones.

Have you tried any of them? If yes, what's your point of difference?

And how do you plan to market it? As I see the plans are cheap, means your LTV is low.

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