War is coming. Any company doing business with China - and complying with the demands of the CCP’s security apparatus - needs to examine it’s choices no less rigorously than what we’ve seen in other human rights vs technology conflicts this week amd this year.
Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
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Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
#372This just prompted me to cancel my Zoom subscription... I could live with all the security flaws (which were patched quite rapidly) but not with this kind of unethical behaviour.
Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
#373The law in China mandated this and hence any firm based in China cannot be trusted for content. To be honest, it seems like fair if one respect that when traffic going in. But for that we start to have 2 commerical worlds. One China+world and one China. Hence, China can profit from the world but no one can touch China. With that, due to the weight of that market, gradually you will have self-sanction. Good luck humanity, if you think basic human rights have a world and a China standard. China standard will rule you ultimately.
Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem for China is that Xi Jinping has essentially installed himself as dictator-for-life. He now rides to and fro on a tiger from which he dare not dismount. The CCP witnessed the collapse of the Soviet Union and instead of opening up to a peaceful transition to democracy they chose to double down on top-down authoritarian policies. At the same time, they’ve sought to leverage markets for economic growth. The…
> he dare not dismount Sounds as if you think he wants to dismount
"He who rides a tiger is afraid to dismount" is a Chinese proverb, if I'm not mistaken.
Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is Google really any better? They may simply be better at hiding their surveillance apparatus. We need to decentralize, i.e. destroy large non-decentralized organizations.
US citizens have a significant better chance at fighting a warrant. Personally, we've been using Jitsi for video. It's not amazing, but it is free in many senses of the word.
Zoom is a US company founded by an American citizen.
Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
#376Is anyone here boycotting use of Zoom? I have a few clients that ask me to use it and I'm trying to think up a good response as to why I don't have it installed. For those of you that have rejected it on principle, what are you all saying?
You don’t need to install it to join a zoom meeting, that’s one of the reasons it’s so popular.
Nor Jitsi, whether you self-host (which you can do) or use the first or a third party site.
Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
#377Article has been updated with a statement from Zoom: > Update: A Zoom spokesperson confirmed to Axios that the account had been closed "to comply with local law" and said it had now been re-activated. > “Just like any global company, we must comply with applicable laws in the jurisdictions where we operate. When a meeting is held across different countries, the participants within those countries are required to comp…
Speculation: Chinese zoom users were required to switch to Chinese version of Zoom last September. There were probably mainland users using international version + VPN to participate in the event, probably some sort of local regulation that prevents users in CN from interacting with international meets, especially on no-no subjects. From 2nd link below:
>>Intensifying international tensions and the country’s upcoming 70th anniversary are cited as reasons for the block, according to Chinese media.
Some old articles:
Zoom suspends Chinese individuals users from hosting meetings due to ‘regulatory demand’ https://technode.com/2020/05/15/zoom-suspends-chinese-indivi...
China’s Zoom users switch to local version after blockage https://technode.com/2019/09/19/chinas-zoom-users-switch-to-...
China blocks US video-conferencing tool Zoom https://technode.com/2019/09/09/china-blocks-us-video-confer...
Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've got no idea. I literally said I don't personally like it, so obviously I do take issue. But there's no scandal with Zoom in this particular case. And this certainly isn't anything new about China. Why people are downvoting something so factual is beyond me. You'll have to ask them.
The issue is that events like this break the fourth wall and remind us that companies are willing to bend over to make profits in countries controlled by tyrannical structures like the CCP, meanwhile we then are indirectly supporting the same behaviour of bad actors.
Explain to me how using Zoom in the US indirectly supports the CCP?
Because I don't see it. A huuuge segment of the American economy is based on trade with China. Just like we use gasoline that comes from Saudi Arabia.
Unless you're arguing that we cut off all free trade with countries that abuse human rights, using Zoom is no different from buying a water bottle at REI in this particular instance.
Also, there's a well-known theory [1] that rising economic living standards ultimately promote greater democracy and human rights, as the people in a country reach suddenly have the ability to demand more. We've already seen that happening in the past 10 years in China, particularly when it comes to corruption and environmentalism. According to that, the more we do business with China, and the higher standard of living they therefore more quickly achieve, the sooner they can pressure their government for more human rights. Now I'm not saying this is an inevitability or anything, in fact it's a hotly contested theory particularly with regards to China -- but I am saying that "boycott companies that do business in China" isn't crystal-clear morally superior. The reality is complicated.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernization_theory#Democrati...
Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
I assume you're getting downvoted because you don't seem to take issue with censorship of free speech ultimately being a problem, and why people take stand against tyrants?
I've got no idea. I literally said I don't personally like it, so obviously I do take issue. But there's no scandal with Zoom in this particular case. And this certainly isn't anything new about China. Why people are downvoting something so factual is beyond me. You'll have to ask them.
> Zoom accidentally deactivated a US-based account, and fixed it when they found out.
This is why I downvoted your comment.
Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event
#380Article has been updated with a statement from Zoom: > Update: A Zoom spokesperson confirmed to Axios that the account had been closed "to comply with local law" and said it had now been re-activated. > “Just like any global company, we must comply with applicable laws in the jurisdictions where we operate. When a meeting is held across different countries, the participants within those countries are required to comp…
Yes, it seems like this was ultimately a bit of a nothingburger. As much as we may not like it (and I certainly personally don't), China has the authority to censor the internet within its borders. Zoom literally has no choice but to follow China's law within China's borders, if it is to provide its product there at all. Zoom accidentally deactivated a US-based account, and fixed it when they found out. At worst, in…
It wasn’t an accident. They prob got a stern call from the CCP and they bent over and apologised and said they would block the accounts. Not expecting it to become a news piece.
In any case seems a paid user who’s calls are encrypted are not encrypted if a china based person joins the call. Making zoom a monitoring tool.