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Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

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Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#371

Post by aaron_m04 »

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #210
aaron_m04 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. When I started working from home, I set up an external monitor with an HDMI-to-USB-C adapter. Whenever it's plugged in, my battery goes down about 4% per hour with the AC adapter plugged in.

Are you sending your power via a USB C adapter too? If you use one of these[1] then your laptop will charge more slowly than if you just plugged in the power directly. [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-a...

My charger is an Apple product; it was the lowest-price charger they had available ($73 after tax). Two components:

* charging block

* male USB A to male USB C cable

EDIT: I just clicked your link; no I'm not using that. The cable is plugged into the charging block on one end and the laptop on the other end.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#372

Post by mthoms »

askafriend wrote: post #363
mthoms wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were holding it back. That's what the several hundred million dollar lawsuit they settled was about. And their public apology. And the hundreds of articles in the tech press. Apple's own front-line staff (ie genius's) were not informed of the throttling. So if you complained of a slow phone you were told you were imagining it, or it was an inevitable part of the newer more complex OS upgrades. At any rate, you w…

I think people apply a double standard when talking about Apple since they are the de-facto industry leader. The battery degradation issue is something that affects nearly all Li-Ion battery powered devices. This includes all Android phones, PC laptops, etc. People have such low expectations of the other products by default that no standards are applied and no quality is expected. This is the issue. We apply (rightfu…

I think what you're saying overall is true to a small extent due to how Apple have positioned themselves. But this ...

> we apply no standard at all to the competition which frequently gets away with the same kinds of issues (and also issues that are much much worse)

... is total BS. Google and Samsung are never, ever, given a free ride when they mess up. Come on. Let's not be hyperbolic.

> The battery degradation issue is something that affects nearly all Li-Ion battery powered devices. This includes all Android phones, PC laptops, etc.

Irrelevant. It's not a question of whether the throttling is a valid solution to a technical limitation (it is). The problem is that (a) there were no major manufacturers throttling CPU speed due to battery health in phones, tablets or laptops before this. It was not a known practice. And (b) since Apple actively hid the throttling from everyone, including it's own employees, very few people were aware that a simple battery replacement would bring the phone back to like-new performance.

You seem to have gone from outright falsehoods - "They even mentioned the change in the original release notes for the iOS update" to mischaracterisation "Replacing the battery would have fixed the issue... It's not like they were holding it back." and now you've moved on to "what about the other guys!?" deflection.

It puzzles me how some people will so blindly defend Apple without critically looking at the facts. Just admit it was a mistake and looked really, really bad.

Apple has. Why not you?

And for the record, I'm a very happy Apple customer. I've used their computers exclusively since 2005 and their phones exclusively since 2010. I rely on their products and ecosystem to earn a living. But I'm not blind and I'm not stupid.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#373

Post by askafriend »

mthoms wrote: post #372
askafriend wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people apply a double standard when talking about Apple since they are the de-facto industry leader. The battery degradation issue is something that affects nearly all Li-Ion battery powered devices. This includes all Android phones, PC laptops, etc. People have such low expectations of the other products by default that no standards are applied and no quality is expected. This is the issue. We apply (rightfu…

I think what you're saying overall is true to a small extent due to how Apple have positioned themselves. But this ... > we apply no standard at all to the competition which frequently gets away with the same kinds of issues (and also issues that are much much worse) ... is total BS. Google and Samsung are never, ever, given a free ride when they mess up. Come on. Let's not be hyperbolic. > The battery degradation is…

> You seem to have gone from outright falsehoods - "They even mentioned the change in the original release notes for the iOS update"

It was in the note as far as I'm aware. You're saying that as if I'm trying to spread misinformation. I don't appreciate that at all. It's very rude.

> mischaracterisation "Replacing the battery would have fixed the issue... It's not like they were holding it back."

That's not a mischaracterization. You absolutely could have gotten your battery replaced. There were even tons of 3rd party services that were offering battery replacement along with screen replacement. It's not like it was some sort of dark secret or as if they banned you from replacing your battery.

> and now you've moved on to "what about the other guys!?" deflection.

I think people should be angry that other manufacturers weren't doing anything to extend the life of their batteries. I see that as worse than using techniques to manage battery life (which the operating system is doing at all times by the way - same with your GPU).

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#375

Post by masonic »

joncrane wrote: post #341
incognito_limey wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the info. I recently discovered this by running folding at home on my 16inch pro overnight, and waking up to my battery being at 5%. I suspect running the CPU full bore over night was too much for the charger to keep up with.

Isn't this bad design? Surely if plugged in, you should be able to use everything on your laptop at 100% utilization (screen, CPU, disks, fans, etc) without having to worry about it. Otherwise, what's the point of having those things?

  Isn't this bad design?
Speaking of which, can some electrician please explain why Apple chargers (for USA) use ungrounded plugs while every computer I've ever owned uses grounded plugs?

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#376

Post by vinay427 »

masonic wrote: post #375
joncrane wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this bad design? Surely if plugged in, you should be able to use everything on your laptop at 100% utilization (screen, CPU, disks, fans, etc) without having to worry about it. Otherwise, what's the point of having those things?

Isn't this bad design? Speaking of which, can some electrician please explain why Apple chargers (for USA) use ungrounded plugs while every computer I've ever owned uses grounded plugs?

This is the case in many places outside of the US as well, as far as I can tell. The included extension cord (C5?) was grounded at least for my last MacBook years ago, but they provide a non-grounded connector probably because it's less bulky (easier to design as a folding mechanism) and more universal (especially in continental Europe where the two-prong is nearly universal and the third prong is far from that).

It's also not just Apple. Lower wattage Lenovo chargers (including ThinkPad) have two-prong adapters and plugs.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#377

Post by ahmedalsudani »

neurostimulant wrote: post #360
ahmedalsudani wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pure FUD in my opinion. Arch has always run better on every computer I’ve owned, especially newer ones. The people for whom Ubuntu works usually have fewer requirements or are not as particular about things working _just right_. That’s not to say I haven’t had issues with Arch, but there were fewer and they were easier to figure out. Now if you want a distro where you can update packages without manual interv…

I mean if he's having problems and spent hundred of hours trying to fix it, instead of giving up why not just try one of the mainstream distro and see if it works? There is a chance (however slim it is) that it'll work due to higher number of users exposing hardware support issues to the maintainers.

Well, I will point you to fluffything’s response

> Arch was the best distro I could find that used the latest kernel by default. Audio worked there.

That mirrors the experiences I’ve had. Most distros ship with broken old software and custom patches that make troubleshooting a nightmare. They also don’t have the resources to support the wide variety of hardware out there. Microsoft spends billions on Windows and vendors spend billions of their own to make sure hardware is mostly plug and play.

In Linux land, the mainstream distros ship with fragile duct-taped components that work if you’re lucky but are a complete pain to troubleshoot and are a bigger pain as time goes on and you have major upgrades.

Arch is the only sane distro with wide adoption and it’s a joy to use. I get the latest kernel with its bug fixes and hardware support. Packages are updated on a rolling basis so there are a few instances every year where I need to manually intervene, but not major breakages every 2 years.

Granted, it’s not for everyone. You have to recreate the fragile duct-taped components you get in other distros, which is an investment of time. You will know how and why your computer works though and will not have to resort to the Ubuntu stack exchange (or their other communities) for the magic formula that will fix your issues.

I’m hoping we can change hearts one by one with this message: Arch is not scary; it might solve the problems you’ve been having :D

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#378

Post by mthoms »

askafriend wrote: post #373
mthoms wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you're saying overall is true to a small extent due to how Apple have positioned themselves. But this ... > we apply no standard at all to the competition which frequently gets away with the same kinds of issues (and also issues that are much much worse) ... is total BS. Google and Samsung are never, ever, given a free ride when they mess up. Come on. Let's not be hyperbolic. > The battery degradation is…

> You seem to have gone from outright falsehoods - "They even mentioned the change in the original release notes for the iOS update" It was in the note as far as I'm aware. You're saying that as if I'm trying to spread misinformation. I don't appreciate that at all. It's very rude. > mischaracterisation "Replacing the battery would have fixed the issue... It's not like they were holding it back." That's not a mischar…

It's a mischaracterization because as you've been informed, there was no known connection between CPU speed and battery health. Even among Apple employees.

So while your statement is technically true, it's irrelevant and misleading. Of course battery replacements have always been available! How does that change anything at all? You aren't addressing the central accusation (which is the secrecy). You aren't bringing anything new or interesting to the discussion.

Sorry, if I've been rude. But you've been corrected a couple times without acknowledging it, and continue being slippery by arguing a position without addressing the core accusation. I wouldn't say that's rude but it's frustratingly bad etiquette.

>I think people should be angry that other manufacturers weren't doing anything to extend the life of their batteries. I see that as worse than using techniques to manage battery life

Sure. I've never owned another smartphone and can't comment on how those customers feel. You're probably right. At any rate it's not relevant to how Apple treated its own customers is it?

Try to reply while addressing the central accusation. That the throttling itself is a perfectly valid solution but it was wrong to not inform consumers it was happening. That it was wrong to have customers with $700 phones and $100 AppleCare be told by Apple Genius's that they were imaging the slowdown and nothing could be done... except buy a new phone.

Now, I'm not 100% convinced Apple had nefarious intentions in withholding the info from staff and customers. But, neither you, nor I, will ever know that. All we have to go on, is the facts of what happened and how people were treated. It seems like a black and white, open and shut case to anyone objective. People were lied to, plain and simple. How can you defend that?

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#379

Post by Marsymars »

cerberusss wrote: post #374
Marsymars wrote: post #130

I wonder why this applies only to Thunderbolt 3 MacBooks and not non-Thunderbolt USB-C MacBooks.

Maybe the Thunderbolt 3 MacBooks have enough capacity to spare?

Maybe... there's not a ton of difference in specced battery life though, so 80% of that should be roughly the same. The 2017 MacBook is specced for 10/12/30 web hours/movie hours/standby days on battery vs. the 2020 MacBook Air is specced for 11/12/30.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#380

Post by RMPR »

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #377
neurostimulant wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if he's having problems and spent hundred of hours trying to fix it, instead of giving up why not just try one of the mainstream distro and see if it works? There is a chance (however slim it is) that it'll work due to higher number of users exposing hardware support issues to the maintainers.

Well, I will point you to fluffything’s response > Arch was the best distro I could find that used the latest kernel by default. Audio worked there. That mirrors the experiences I’ve had. Most distros ship with broken old software and custom patches that make troubleshooting a nightmare. They also don’t have the resources to support the wide variety of hardware out there. Microsoft spends billions on Windows and vend…

> In Linux land, the mainstream distros ship with fragile duct-taped components that work if you’re lucky but are a complete pain to troubleshoot and are a bigger pain as time goes on and you have major upgrades.

Laughing in Fedora. Out of curiosity how much "mainstream distros" did you use?

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