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Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

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Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#371

Post by muzani »

bregma wrote: post #117
muzani wrote: post #33

> It’s cold on Titan, at -180°C (-291°F), but thanks to its thick atmosphere, residents wouldn’t need pressure suits—just warm clothing and respirators. I'm no space colony expert but am I missing something here? -180°C sounds like constant space suit level, not "just warm clothing".

A generous slathering of bear fat or whale blubber is all it would take. Maybe a vinyl outer suit so the viscious liquid methane rain doesn't dissolve your insulation. On second thought, some kind of heated space suit sounds more comfortable.

Something like butter freezes at -20 C. Most animal fats would probably... shatter at the temperatures of Titan? I'm not familiar with temperatures anywhere near that low and I assume a lot of materials are just going to act very differently.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#372

Post by jimmux »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #109
jacobush wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's devoid of volatiles though? And in a deep gravity well. I may be very expensive to leave. So it would feel a little lonely, and psychologically I think it would be scary to be so close to the Sun.

Mercury has a very low axial tilt, and substantial surface cratering. Any crater close enough to the poles is going to be in perpetual darkness, and thus very cold. Any volatiles vaporized elsewhere naturally travel until they form deposits on the very cold inner surfaces of such craters. Based on MESSENGER radar data, the Mercury south pole probably has more water than Mars. The temperatures at most of the craters w…

You make a very convincing case, but would most of the same apply to Earth's moon? I don't know how available water compares, but tilt seems to be the most important factor.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#373

Post by DarthGhandi »

dylan604 wrote: post #166
DarthGhandi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shielding Mars is possible with current technology. https://phys.org/news/2017-03-nasa-magnetic-shield-mars-atmo...

Is it though? The link only discusses the theory of placing a large magnet in the Mars-Sun L1 point. It does not discuss the makings of that magnet. What's going to power it? Solar? Nuclear? So at the end of the day, I'm still left not knowing if we have the tech to be able to do this. This seems like a no-brainer of something should/needs/must be done to make humans living on Mars anything more than just a though ex…

At it's simplest is a ring with power flowing through it, the power requirements would be minimal, 1 Tesla needed and a deflection of a fraction of a degree.

I've seen estimates in the single digit MW range which we build solar plants on Earth for a few million each. Power generation is somewhat irrelevant, getting the material up there and maintaining it will be the real monetary challenge.

Read the link at the end of the popsci article. There's a huge amount of research going into generating magnetic fields for spaceships and inhabited bases.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#374

Post by jacobush »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #165
keiferski wrote: post #31

Two thoughts on this topic: 1. The film Gattaca (1997), in addition to being an excellent, inspiring film all around, centers on an aspiring astronaut's upcoming trip to Titan. Highly recommended. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZa83dTf4JA 2. The colonization of Venus is also a fascinating idea that isn't talked about much in comparison to the Moon or Mars. Essentially, the surface is too hot for colonization, but…

Unless you're planning to build a literal castle in the sky out of convenient gasses, this is completely unworkable. Even at that altitude the cloud layer is still very turbulent and very toxic, and no structure will be absolutely gas-tight. And if the temperature is 75 °C outside, it's going to take insane amounts of energy to keep the inside of your hab cool - especially if it's made of metal and not rock. (A thin…

I don't know... you'd need to maintain an over pressure in the living quarters and tiny leaks won't be much of an issue. Lift can be provided by hydrogen blimps, until you get to a balmy 20 C (70 F).

That would help both bleeding off heat and helping with maintaining over-pressure in the living quarters.

Corrosion resistance will be a challenge but not impossible, there are many plastics which will withstand sulfuric acid.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#375

Post by jacobush »

robotresearcher wrote: post #195
war1025 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it come down to basically just a boat / submarine?

That floats in a fluid at 75C. That’s a sub with a major AC challenge.

So, go higher instead, until the temperature is nice.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#376

Post by jacobush »

dntbnmpls wrote: post #359
danpalmer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But every other point has nothing to do with statistics or scientific analysis. I really can't say definitively that he died on his way to titan, but the evidence is fairly overwhelming. It wouldn't have been hinted at so much in the movie and the movie would not have ended with that quote otherwise. Do you have anything else that points to this? I've watched Gattaca 5-6 times I reckon, and never picked up on a hin…

> Do you have anything else that points to this? I've watched Gattaca 5-6 times I reckon, and never picked up on a hint that Vincent dies. Other than what I wrote, I can't think of anything else. > For the heart beats, I've always interpreted it as the world won't give him a chance because _statistically_ he has a low likelihood of success compared to the "guaranteed" success of genetic engineering. Same. I used to b…

Because the flight windows are so far apart, I interpreted it to mean that Vincent, once there, was set. They couldn't really send him back even if they wanted to.

And I read Jeromes suicide as the last act to "cover up" for Vincent (and Jeromes name). What would people say when someone found Jemore, alive or his corpse, in the home on Earth?

The last step was to disappear completely. If I recall correctly we were shown that the incinerator would burn until nothing was left there.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#377

Post by jacobush »

btkramer9 wrote: post #270
svaigsq wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Mars has atmosphere, then Moon has equally useless atmosphere, too. Despite differences in day length, Moon can gather more solar power, than Mars and energy is everything. Besides, those sattellites are gonna crash.

I don't think your atmosphere comparison is valid. The moon has absolutely no atmosphere. Mars' is 1% of earth. That's still a lot of _something_. aerobraking, and easy access to unlimited CO2 is incredibly valuable. Delta-v to mars is less than the moon so the extra solar panels required is not that big of an issue. The moon will probably only be a research outpost because of its gravity and slow rotation. Mars on t…

Ackshully Mars' atmosphere is famous for being rubbish for aerobraking but enough to burn you up.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#378

Post by rbanffy »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #351
rbanffy wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> make a floating city on earth to practice? Earth's atmosphere is lighter than the Venusian one at that altitude. A balloon filled with breathable air would float naturally. You can't do that on Earth.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Nine_%28tensegrity_spher... you can.

It is possible. Just don't expect living space to be bigger than a hot air balloon basket for the size of a reasonable hot air balloon.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#379

Post by muzani »

PeterisP wrote: post #141
lolc wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'd like to know what you consider hard if launching a solar sail is not.

Mass change of human behavior is one option for solving climate change, but IMHO doing that takes much, much more coordination and effort, and is less likely to succeed than a "apollo project" to launch a lot of foil pieces / chaff in proper orbit to achieve a slight shading of the sun.

It's not simply changing behavior. We're also telling people to cut down on things that are making money. What's worse is that the people who got rich on fossil fuels are telling the newbies to stop using them.

There's plenty of incentive to just have people set up a solar sail. Plenty of people would rather live in an ice age than give up their factories.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#380

Post by WalterBright »

mark-r wrote: post #315
WalterBright wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd often though that a rail or even cable should be strung to the top of Mt Everest, you'd make a fortune off of it shuttling tourists up and down all day.

That would be quite the engineering feat - Everest is not exactly construction friendly. Pikes Peak used to have a train going to the top, but they closed it a couple of years ago. https://www.cograilway.com/rates-times.asp

Do it via a tunnel, like the Eiger Jungfrau line. That way you won't have weather problems.
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