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More bosses give four-day workweek a try

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Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#371

Post by nathan_compton »

ausbah wrote: post #143

"Natalie Nagele, co-founder and CEO of Wildbit, has heard from other leaders who say it didn't work for them. She says it fails when employees aren't motivated and where managers don't trust employees." I would muse that employees usually aren't motivated because they hate their working conditions, usually imposed by shitty managers / company cultures. Managers & companies may complain about "unproductive" or "motiva…

My superficial understanding of capitalism is that the only thing that motivates employees is money. If you want people to be more motivated, give them more money.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#372

Post by Ididntdothis »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #370
Ididntdothis wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget that large companies internally are very similar to a communist planned economy. They have five year plans and central planning. Everything flows from the top. They value predictability over everything else. So it makes sense to run everything like an assembly line where every position knows what they are supposed to do and can easily be trained. Only a few elite people get to work on the big picture and…

It does work, but is not a particularly good approach for consumer (or even pro) software. You keep delivering yesterday's technology, tomorrow. It's the kind of approach that you might use for space launch software, but even that can be iterated (as SpaceX is showing).

As long as the money keeps coming in, I don't think the business guys will see any reason for change.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#373

Post by toomuchtodo »

greedo wrote: post #368
wolco wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mature places have this with a global workforce. Not so mature places put 9-5ers on call with a tiny bump in pay.

My org has been around for over 150 years, and our IT department expects admins to take a rotating week of oncall. Not only are you expected on call with a 10 minutes response time, but you're expected to do your normal day to day operations/projects. And during normal business hours, a ton of extra stuff gets dumped into the lap of the oncall person, because why not? My boss describes this as everyone's turn in the…

I would argue you’re in a toxic work environment and encourage a change of scenery via interviewing and finding a better employer.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#374

Post by nathan_compton »

jariel wrote: post #282
perfunctory wrote: post #217

In a world where no one is compelled to work more than four hours a day, every person possessed of scientific curiosity will be able to indulge it, and every painter will be able to paint without starving, however excellent his pictures may be. Young writers will not be obliged to draw attention to themselves by sensational pot-boilers, with a view to acquiring the economic independence needed for monumental works, f…

This is a funny kind of bubble quote, by someone I think out of touch with most people. I believe most people would watch TV, play cards, play video games. This is what they already do with their spare time, there's no reason to believe there wouldn't be more of it. It's amazing what a 'schedule' and 'working with others' and 'requirements' and 'deadlines' can do - it brings people to life and is probably the only wa…

Who cares? Sounds like a win/win to me. Some people get to relax more and the curious or creative get to explore or create more.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#375

Post by abecedarius »

aaronchall wrote: post #295
abecedarius wrote: post #277

I used to work 4 days during a contract job with a very long commute. I was made to stop because of a new state law requiring overtime on >8 hours. Thanks, Sacramento.

I wonder what you'd say to the lawmakers who caused that change...

It's pretty small on the scale of other damage. I liked https://equilibriabook.com/ for an interesting recent perspective on this sort of thing, not limited to politics. Still, nobody made them go into that field.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#376

Post by sib »

k__ wrote: post #225
sib wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an English-language description of this law anywhere online? I couldn't find it and would love to learn more. Thanks!

https://www.mayr-arbeitsrecht.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/...

Thank you! Very interesting. I've been having conversations with friends about the societal desirability of - and potentially need for - this sort of working arrangement over the past couple of years. I personally would love to be able to take a 10-20% reduction in annual work time.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#377

Post by jariel »

nathan_compton wrote: post #374
jariel wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a funny kind of bubble quote, by someone I think out of touch with most people. I believe most people would watch TV, play cards, play video games. This is what they already do with their spare time, there's no reason to believe there wouldn't be more of it. It's amazing what a 'schedule' and 'working with others' and 'requirements' and 'deadlines' can do - it brings people to life and is probably the only wa…

Who cares? Sounds like a win/win to me. Some people get to relax more and the curious or creative get to explore or create more.

When nobody works it's definitely 'lose lose lose' for almost everyone.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#379

Post by dev840 »

anonsivalley652 wrote: post #113
volkk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know not everyone is as sapped for energy as I am after work, but I leave work and sit in an hour of traffic. My energy is just sapped from me by the time I make it home. I have enough energy to feed myself and sometimes work out to maintain my health.. I know that some people just dont have the privilege of living close to their jobs, but after spending one internship getting up at 5;45am to drive with my dad to…

Exactly. Work someplace else cheaper/less dense, remotely or get the tiniest, rathole, walkup closet where there's only a refrigerator and a tub, and you can't open the frig to open the door (but at least you can drink OJ from the carton while in the tub;). The people who commute by plane, 1-2 hours each way, or 100-200 miles daily are phreak'n outside of their skulls looking in.

I wish that I could find a tiny rathole. Unfortunately, regulations around here with the minimum square footage requirements make that almost impossible.

Re: More bosses give four-day workweek a try

#380

Post by Cerium »

james_s_tayler wrote: post #273
Ididntdothis wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think economically it may make sense to hire fresh people for less money, burn them out and then have them leave soon. This may be one reason for ageism .

The people I've seen add the most value and be the most productive are always the ones with the longest tenure. Because they know the software backwards and they know the domain too. 18 months is barely a blip on the radar.

Absolutely agree. At my job, 2 years is still a baby, many people are at 5, 10, or even 15 years; and the company is only about 25 years old!
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