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What's SAP?

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Re: What's SAP?

#371

Post by achow »

majewsky wrote: post #326
smolder wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The research that was put into finding optimal processes for those non-differentiating business functions can of course be invalidated at a later time. We all put lead in gasoline because it seemed optimal, then later we kept putting it in gasoline well past the point it was known to be harmful, because everything was designed around it.

Sure. We also found out that Micro-USB as a charging plug for phones does not cover all new uses. But standardizing on Micro-USB was still the correct course of action at the time.

Not sure you got the OP's comment.

What OP is saying - Perhaps SAP 'optimal processes' made absolutely sense few decades back, but when new time came and world or best practices changed, those optimal processes were no longer optimal, but still one needs to keep using those.. because SAP.

From Micro-USB analogy - world has changed, but you still need to keep using Micro-USB for your USB-C phone... because SAP.

Re: What's SAP?

#372

Post by kube-system »

cryptica wrote: post #282
mr_gibbins wrote: post #230

I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…

SAP, IBM and Oracle mostly rely on free fiat money straight from the government or other artificial monopolies to keep their businesses going. They don't need to deliver anything. What they do is beyond inefficient. Companies would be better off using open source solutions and hiring developers to integrate various systems from scratch.

I'm not sure any comparable open source enterprise ERPs even exist. They almost all target small and medium businesses. Enterprise ERPs are gigantic pieces of software.

Then there's the issue of expecting a widget-factory to become experts in their own ERP implementation.

Re: What's SAP?

#373

Post by cm2187 »

tomatocracy wrote: post #301
cm2187 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly when I work, I focus on the content. Bloomberg Terminals command based UI is a designer’s nightmare, but you get anywhere you want to go in a few keystrokes, and as far as I can tell, most other users love it too.

The Bloomberg terminal does two things which make it much more approachable for beginners than you suggest. Don't know which function you need to do something? Type in what you want (and possibly hit HELP if it doesn't autocomplete for you) and you'll find it 9 times out of 10. The 1 time out of 10 that doesn't work, you start a chat with support and they'll point you in the right direction pretty well immediately. T…

Agree with all of this. But the color scheme, screens that distort when resized, US date formats shown to European users, text based graphics, textual commands, etc, would make more than one graphic designer physically sick.

Re: What's SAP?

#374

Post by hef19898 »

asmosoinio wrote: post #146
new_here wrote: post #90

SAP today are just plainly incompetent and ripe for disruption. I've had quite a bit of interaction with SAP over the last few years, here are some examples: - Almost all meetings I've been in start with prospective clients mentioning to SAP consultants that SAP has a 'certain reputation'. The SAP consultants acknowledge this. - Some of the solution pitch ideas they come up with signal they have almost zero knowledge…

> ... when compared to alternatives. What do you see as the alternatives?

In the logistics sector, transportation, warehousing, forwarding and so on, SAP isn't that strong. I started using Cargowise One in my company (started a couple of month ago, so ask me again next year how I like it!). Warehousing and transportation being things I would use solutions other than SAP and connect them to it. If I really need a MRP-function, that is.

Re: What's SAP?

#376

Post by dvtrn »

chadash wrote: post #363
mr_gibbins wrote: post #230

I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…

> I (am actually told to) teach that changing the business to fit SAP is preferable to changing SAP to fit the business. And it's accurate advice. It shouldn't be, but it is. SAP is SAP. It doesn't care about your USP. Or your custom approach to business. As far as SAP is concerned all businesses are the same, they do the same things, and all must conform. Resistance is futile. I've worked in companies making decisio…

A few years ago the company I’m at now tried doing the former while also trying to launch a SaaS application while also also trying to be a service provider.

Five years later (of which I’ve been on board for 3) they’re still trying to dig themselves out from under that with a development team of exactly four developers, and management finally got the first time today said what a horrendously bad idea it was, but refuse to move on because someone in leadership loves their sunk costs.

Re: What's SAP?

#377

Post by et2o »

ta999999171 wrote: post #293
hef19898 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last paragraph is the core issue, IMHO. SAP, while as software is cumbersome, user hostile and the opposite of intuitive, has some really great standard processes. Stick to them and SAP as an ERP system will run, almost, like a charm . When your company has the scale to benefit from it. And sticks to 90% of the standard processes. Try to implement it without the necessary scale of operations, with sticking to sta…

If you absolutely need training to understand a UI, your UI sucks. Badly.

Definitely some truth to this buf, also a bit different for highly specialized software which people are using to do the same things consistently. Almost like looking at an airplane cockpit and thinking it's too complicated.

Re: What's SAP?

#378

Post by owenmarshall »

achow wrote: post #371
majewsky wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. We also found out that Micro-USB as a charging plug for phones does not cover all new uses. But standardizing on Micro-USB was still the correct course of action at the time.

Not sure you got the OP's comment. What OP is saying - Perhaps SAP 'optimal processes' made absolutely sense few decades back, but when new time came and world or best practices changed, those optimal processes were no longer optimal, but still one needs to keep using those.. because SAP. From Micro-USB analogy - world has changed, but you still need to keep using Micro-USB for your USB-C phone... because SAP.

> when new time came and world or best practices changed, those optimal processes were no longer optimal, but still one needs to keep using those.. because SAP

The underlying assertion here - made without evidence - is that business processes have changed enough to move away from the SAP-defined ones.

Have they?

Re: What's SAP?

#379

Post by wackget »

> Article is titled "What’s SAP?"

> Doesn't actually tell you what SAP is, or stands for, until halfway through the article.

Re: What's SAP?

#380

Post by mbesto »

BlobRunner wrote: post #244
mbesto wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take a very neutral position to this. Enterprise software at the scale SAP is operating (mainly its core ERP) at a Fortune 500 enterprise level. This characteristic (needs at that level) are user-hostile, not the software. Imagine this situation: - You're a F500 pipe manufacturer and a sales person needs to enter an order for 100 pipes to be manufactured and sent to a customer in the US Now imagine you need to: - O…

I don't buy the "real world is complex deal with it" explanation. Banking (especially in US) is a total complexity nightmare. Yet you have Stripe.com who simplify it. Your PC operating system complexity and the International Network of computers is so complex you cannot figure it all with your brain alone. Yet you write your email everyday with it and your colleague in China get's it in seconds. Your supply chain is…

> Banking (especially in US) is a total complexity nightmare. Yet you have Stripe.com who simplify it.

Oh man, where do I start with this one. Calling Stripe banking is like calling a porpoise a fish. Sure they both swim in an ocean, but they are very different types of animals.

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