Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? • Hacker News Board

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#371

Post by dsfyu404ed » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:27 AM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #202

rayiner wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tax advantages of moving states is just too trivial It’s not. For a family with $85,000 a year, getting rid of state tax could mean an extra several hundred dollars a month in income.

You'll spend the time and effort to move for a couple grand a year? Does that really make sense? How many years does it take to break even?

We're talking a couple hundred a month. That's a small car payment for Christ sake. That's a huge influence on people's monthly budget and likewise a significant quality of life (from stress reduction if nothing else) improvement.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#372

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #76

jshaqaw wrote: post #68

Cost of living is real. Weather is real. Outside of a few highly nomadic ultra-high net worth types the tax advantages of moving states is just too trivial in absolute terms for most people to bother with. The idea that masses of people are moving for lower taxes seems like a rhetorical invention of the WSJ editorial page versus anything rooted in reality.

> tax advantages of moving states is just too trivial It’s not. For a family with $85,000 a year, getting rid of state tax could mean an extra several hundred dollars a month in income.

> For a family with $85,000 a year, getting rid of state tax could mean an extra several hundred dollars a month in income.

It could, if you could take the $85,000/year job with you. Pay for similar skills in the lower CoL states is also notably lower, though.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#373

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

harimau777 wrote: post #116

snickerbockers wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's reasonable to criticize them no matter what because they're preventing other people from having the same opportunities that they were afforded.

I'm not advocating that more housing shouldn't be built. What I am saying is that there is a middle ground between allowing existing homeowners to veto any proposals and not giving them any say or protection.

Sure, there probably is. But if we imagine that this is a spectrum where 0 means "no say" and 10 means "absolute veto power", CA is at 9, and most functioning communities with healthy housing growth are probably at 5 or below.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#374

Post by 52-6F-62 » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

downerending wrote: post #323

52-6F-62 wrote: post #141

Come to Canada >:] We could use some denser populations to provide a larger tax base and to promote inter-city transit infrastructure.

Sadly, Canada won't let you in unless you're young or rich.

Honestly was being half tongue in cheek, but your comment made me look it up because I never have.

It sounds like we have a program similar to the USA’s TN Visa program:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...

FWIW, it can be expensive here, but Amazon and others are hiring like stink.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#375

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

harimau777 wrote: post #348

grandmczeb wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been to plenty of neighborhood meetings. The "issue" most of the time is a personal anxiety over change. Why should society cater to that?

I don't necessarily disagree with you; however, strictly for sake of argument, a couple of potential reasons: - Providing a sense of security strikes me as a core role of society. - People who are afraid tend to be willing to resort to draconian measures like NIMBYism to protect themselves. - Anxiety that things could change so much that one is unable to follow their chosen way of life strikes me as a reasonable fear…

I think you're starting to (unintentionally) argue a straw man, or at least are making assumptions that just aren't true.

No one is saying that developers should just be able to build whatever they want, whenever they want, with no oversight. No one is saying that the community should completely shut up and have no input into the process.

But the actual objections brought up at actual planning meetings that happen in SF are universally bonkers. It literally actually is people opposing change just for the sake of opposing change. If there is anyone at these meetings making reasonable objections, they're completely drowned out by the other 20 people shouting that the sky is falling.

It's protectionism, and the "I got mine, so fuck you" mentality, plain and simple.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#376

Post by int_19h » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

reilly3000 wrote: post #152

sudosteph wrote: post #56

Native North Carolinian checking in. I'm from Charlotte and I can honestly say that I grew up with more friends who had parents from New York than from NC. A lot of middle class people from upstate NY settled in Charlotte due to the economic opportunities and weather. I'd wager that this migration really started about 30 years ago, and we're seeing the numbers increase even further due to network effects. For example…

Washingtonians (and moreso Idahoans) are particularly irate about Californians moving in, and have been for as long as I can remember. There are a lot of "salt of the earth" types who, regardless of political persuasion, see Californians representing big houses, loose morals, and heavy traffic. The Northwest ethos has been one of eclectic flavors of stoicism, serenity, and a nordic work ethic. Californians, in their…

Maybe that's what it was historically, but these days, most of the sentiment against people moving from California is because more demand raises house prices and rental costs that are already perceived as overly high, and pricing too many locals out. Cultural issues are mentioned as an afterthought, if at all.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#377

Post by make3 » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

Come to Montreal

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#378

Post by kortilla » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:36 AM UTC

atomi wrote: post #298

I wouldn't leave California for a million dollars. To quote a famous Californian, "I'd rather be dead in California than alive in Arizona."

I’m sure there are lots of people in Arizona that would love for you to die there as well.

I’m honestly surprised that so many “forward thinking” people can spout off such nationalist bullshit with a straight face.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#379

Post by jedberg » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:36 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #311

jedberg wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the best solutions you've seen? SB 827 was pretty good. [0] SB 50 was a good idea with a bad execution [1] > if the story of net outflow is true. The article says that California still saw a net inflow due to births and incoming foreign migrants. > Either the existing supply is being manipulated in some way, It is, via rent control, which has shown time and again to only help people who already have housin…

> Yes, there is a lot of foreign investment in California real estate which just sits empty. I get ads from agents that "specialize in finding Chinese buyers" which is code for "people who will pay more than asking and not care what condition the house is in". Or more simply, “money laundering”.

Well not exactly. A lot of it is that China only allows their citizens to hold so much private wealth, so the wealthy find ways to get their money out and hold it elsewhere.

California real estate (and western real estate in general) is a good place to hold it because of our stable economy, solid legal system, and you get something tangible (the land and building).

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#380

Post by cushychicken » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 1:37 AM UTC

sudosteph wrote: post #56

Native North Carolinian checking in. I'm from Charlotte and I can honestly say that I grew up with more friends who had parents from New York than from NC. A lot of middle class people from upstate NY settled in Charlotte due to the economic opportunities and weather. I'd wager that this migration really started about 30 years ago, and we're seeing the numbers increase even further due to network effects. For example…

Please Buffalo peeps: keep coming here and sharing your food culture with us.

For a while, I would have said that they already sent you all the food culture they could. But I passed through Buffalo on a road trip a few months ago, and I gotta say, it's got a very hip vibe these days. Went to a great brewpub for dinner, and a local ice cream joint for dessert serving homemade ice cream.

They might be shipping you more food culture yet!