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Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

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Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#371

Post by _8j50 »

mmsimanga wrote: post #361
_8j50 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I strongly believe debt is never ok. It can be ok in the same way a hospital surgery is ok (you have no choice). Mortgages are not sustainable either. Just because the practice has been popularized in the west for centuries,it does not make it a sound practice. It is possible to buy a house with money you saved. This also makes a lot of sense when the house will be passed on to the next generation (like it is d…

I get what you are saying. I agree with most of it. There is a time and place for debt. When you need to expand an existing growing business. A business one has started with their own money, validated it to work and would like an extra piece of equipment to scale up. Debt for the sake of debt is indeed a problem. As for government debt I think that is off topic for this particular thread. That's a whole other story.

VC investment is not debt, I have no problem with trading equity for investment.

It is slightly different for business than people since a business loan is more on a case by case basis than consumer loans. With consumer debt, entire markets are restructures with consumer's ability to get loans in order to afford goods and services.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#372

Post by _8j50 »

austhrow743 wrote: post #353
_8j50 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I strongly believe debt is never ok. It can be ok in the same way a hospital surgery is ok (you have no choice). Mortgages are not sustainable either. Just because the practice has been popularized in the west for centuries,it does not make it a sound practice. It is possible to buy a house with money you saved. This also makes a lot of sense when the house will be passed on to the next generation (like it is d…

>Debt is spending your future cashflow for short term gains. No, debt is spending your future cashflow to increase your future cash flow. >"you need money to make money" Yes. This is where debt comes in. >Debt takes away your liquidity No it increases it. Debt lets you turn an illiquid asset like a building or accounts receivable in to immediate cash.

> No, debt is spending your future cashflow to increase your future cash flow.

No, with debt you gain capital now. Future cashflow is not guaranteed oe even expected in most cases (e.g.:how will a mortgage generate future cashflow? Rent your house,hope future rent value is higher?). You might get more cashflow in the future if your debt was for a good investment. But even then, until you pay off the debt, your future cashflow will have your debt payments subtracted from it, even if you have positive cashflow after that, your argument only makes sense if the that cash flow is more than your existing cashflow (possible but rare).

There is a big difference between calculated debt made for a business investment and debt (however calculated) made to aquire equity or to afford goods and services.

> Yes. This is where debt comes in.

No, this is where revenue stream comes in. For a salary man, this means getting promotions and saving up. For a business person, this means making profits and increasing profit margins. In both cases what you can "afford" is liquid cash , not loans.

> No it increases it. Debt lets you turn an illiquid asset like a building or accounts receivable in to immediate cash

It does turn it into cash, but you're getting into debt to spend that liquidity right away. Who gets into debt for long term liquidity? If your business is modeled to grow then you should see increasing profit margins over time, this profit is what should sustainably provide liquidity. Your future decisions are not made in fear of missing bank payments. You will always need more cash, so whatever revenue you will make in the future will always go to banks since you're always getting into debt (unless you have remarkable discipline). If you get into debt because an unexpected event requires you to have more immediate liquidity than what you have, I think that's fine. But my position is that you shouldn't plan on getting into debt from the begining.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#373

Post by austhrow743 »

_8j50 wrote: post #372
austhrow743 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Debt is spending your future cashflow for short term gains. No, debt is spending your future cashflow to increase your future cash flow. >"you need money to make money" Yes. This is where debt comes in. >Debt takes away your liquidity No it increases it. Debt lets you turn an illiquid asset like a building or accounts receivable in to immediate cash.

> No, debt is spending your future cashflow to increase your future cash flow. No, with debt you gain capital now. Future cashflow is not guaranteed oe even expected in most cases (e.g.:how will a mortgage generate future cashflow? Rent your house,hope future rent value is higher?). You might get more cashflow in the future if your debt was for a good investment. But even then, until you pay off the debt, your future…

Not interested in discussing consumer debt. Poster made it clear he was talking about learning how the business world works.

No leveraging with debt is not rare. Every small business owner I know uses debt. Some quick googling tells me the average for small businesses is $200k in the US.

You don't need remarkable discipline to manage it. It's pretty simple math. Fear doesn't need to come in to it. I'm not recommending everyone go out and redline their company with a ridiculous gearing ratio.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#374

Post by Unsimplified »

_8j50 wrote: post #352
mmsimanga wrote: post #130

I can't read the article seems have suffered HN effect. Speaking as a black man in Africa which is somewhat different to the US I do agree with the title. Africa is different because the first educated generation is my parents generation who are 70+. Off course they are exceptions. My parents who were teachers coming from pure village setup didn't have any mentors. No one explained mortgage to them, they learnt that…

FWIW, I strongly believe debt is never ok. It can be ok in the same way a hospital surgery is ok (you have no choice). Mortgages are not sustainable either. Just because the practice has been popularized in the west for centuries,it does not make it a sound practice. It is possible to buy a house with money you saved. This also makes a lot of sense when the house will be passed on to the next generation (like it is d…

Pierce the abstraction.

A builder spends 2000 hrs this year making your home. You pay him back 420 hrs annually over 5 years.

Some debts are just fine.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#375

Post by jpster »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #271
linguae wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly correct. There's a wonderful late-1990s documentary on the history of East Palo Alto called "Dreams of a City: Creating East Palo Alto" that describes how the community was formed and ultimately became an incorporated city. Here is a clip that describes the discriminatory housing policies in the Peninsula that led to East Palo Alto becoming predominately black: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RHppw20…

Many Asians and other immigrants often come to the United States without any generational wealth and build from scratch. An example of someone everyone knows is Sundar Pitchai. The only way out of middle class and to go upwards is education. Not by speculative real estate activities.

Yes, when you are a recent immigrant who comes with nothing, the way to go upwards is by education.

The point is that black Americans are not recent immigrants. They have been in this country just as long (if not longer) than white Americans. Therefore, it’s probably better to compare black Americans’ socioeconomic status to white Americans.

“Speculative real estate”? Not in the slightest. Simply the ability to buy a roof over your head and pass it on to your children.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#376

Post by selimthegrim »

rayiner wrote: post #99
jenkins6g wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

That’s certainly true, but I’m not sure it’s a complete explanation. Jobs and education are less available in say Bangladesh than in US inner cities, and even among impoverished people families remain intact. Strong cultural and religious taboos on divorce and single parenthood play a big role in that. It’s worth noting that the percentage of white children raised without fathers has tripled since the 1960-1970s: htt…

Surely you must have met lower caste people in Bangladesh? You mean standing with respect to what?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#377

Post by banads »

MiroF wrote: post #339
banads wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In my city, Boston, the average household wealth of a white family (excluding the value of the home) is $200,000. The average household wealth of a black family is $5. (and no, I didn't forget to put a thousand after the 5) Do you have a source for that? Seems like you may be referring to this study[1] which only had a sample size of 78 white households and 71 black households. In that sample, the median net worth d…

You're correct - I misremembered the exact numbers. Median is an average. The Federal Reserve Bank of Boston was my source for this. Despite your usage of the qualifier "only" to describe the sample sizes, that is more than sufficient to draw statistically significant conclusions about the racial gap in wealth in Boston. Finally, here's the description of how the samples were selected: > Various sampling techniques w…

Obviously there is a considerable wealth gap among different demographics. But if you compare a poor black neighborhood with a poor white trailer park, there won't be much of a difference. If you compare that poor neighborhood or trailer park with a rich white gated community, you're not really saying much that isn't already known. How do we know the people who conducted the study didn't purposefully do the latter?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#378

Post by kkwak »

JshWright wrote: post #110
kkwak wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are injustices, what percentage of the jail time is due to actually breaking the law? Isn't it valid to put people who break the law behind bars?

A) The laws have been specifically designed to allow targeting of certain populations (the "War on Drugs" has had a hugely disproportionate impact on non-white Americans). https://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5850830/war-on-drugs-racist-min... B) Non-whites are way, way more likely to be arrested (despite similar rates of drug use), and receive harsher penalties. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304..…

War on drugs. Is there a particular reason why weed is a necessity? Why isn't it fair to have banned it?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#379

Post by jbaham »

There is a lot of debate going on as to the root cause of this problem, but that time has long passed. There is an organization in New Orleans that is taking action. If you would like to take action then please consider volunteering, or donatin. www.sonofasaint.org

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#380

Post by JshWright »

kkwak wrote: post #378
JshWright wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) The laws have been specifically designed to allow targeting of certain populations (the "War on Drugs" has had a hugely disproportionate impact on non-white Americans). https://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5850830/war-on-drugs-racist-min... B) Non-whites are way, way more likely to be arrested (despite similar rates of drug use), and receive harsher penalties. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304..…

War on drugs. Is there a particular reason why weed is a necessity? Why isn't it fair to have banned it?

That argument is nonsensical... Just because something is "not a necessity" it's reasonable to criminalize its possession?

Eggs aren't a necessity, there are plenty of alternatives available. Should we ban them too?

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