Live data from Hacker News

The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

paulgraham.com

371–380 of 500 posts

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#371
There's an aspect of this that strikes me as a little strange: the basic recommendation here seems substantially more to the benefit of society than to the individual who might be encouraged to cultivate their own genius by this method (or a parent in their kids).

> How do the people who do great work discover these paths that others overlook?

> So what matters? You can never be sure. It's precisely because no one can tell in advance which paths are promising that you can discover new ideas by working on what you're interested in.

> But if interest is a critical ingredient in genius, we may be able, by cultivating interest, to cultivate genius.

> It may even be that we can cultivate a habit of intellectual bus ticket collecting in kids.

The main premise here is about the value of encouraging interest in essentially random topics (limited by some loose constraints from heuristics on "mattering"): it must be assumed that the majority of selections will be failures, with a rare critical exceptions. The structure of such a strategy is a very poor for any individual to adopt, but great for someone who might benefit by many other people adopting it.

According to the essay if you also happen to be talented then the selection should be less random—though the case of Newton here is a clear enough example that whatever reduction of randomness induced by talent, the possibilities of topic selection will still range widely enough to include ...undesirable picks. Additionally judging 'talent' is difficult enough that the practicality of using it as a criterion is pretty limited.

There is a cynical way of interpreting this—but it's not the one I have in mind. It seems to me more just a blind spot that most intellectuals have about the real value of genius. If you start by considering quality of life, it's not a great pick (going by the odds here, I mean; i.e. it's possible to be happy as an obsessive genius, but it's not the most likely outcome). Instead the value of genius tends to be axiomatic and not closely examined (I was that way for most of my life, too). When you look closer though, it's really most often to the benefit of society over the individual, and many of these people aren't fully aware of the tradeoffs involved in the sacrifice they're making (i.e. what sort of positive things show up in life when you aren't "driven" or obsessed by something).

I just hope parents consider this before going gung-ho with this method. It's at least a profoundly difficult moral question (imo).

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#372

Two reactions to this. I almost believe these: 1. The difference between collecting bus tickets, working on mathematics, and figuring the crystallization patterns of snowflakes is virtually nothing. To the people obsessed with it, it is all-important; to outsiders, all three look indistinguishably pointless. Only in retrospect can anyone say whether the activity led to something society considers important. The truly…

From time to time mathematicians discover something interesting, like the theoretical bases for elliptic-curve cryptography. I also remember some interesting work with applications to tomography, but it's mostly like a black box so it's more difficult to be sure how aplicable it was.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#373
post #224

Before I read the article, I thought the “bus ticket” was referencing William Sidis, who in the early 20th century gave a mathematics lecture at MIT at 10, a Harvard student at 11, was expected to revolutionize math but then dropped out of the public eye to write strange books, one being an etymology of train and bus tickets across the US, collecting several thousand unique stubs. I bet that you could learn a lot abo…

Does anyone have a hypothesis on why William Sidis made such a interesting pivot?

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#374
post #224

Before I read the article, I thought the “bus ticket” was referencing William Sidis, who in the early 20th century gave a mathematics lecture at MIT at 10, a Harvard student at 11, was expected to revolutionize math but then dropped out of the public eye to write strange books, one being an etymology of train and bus tickets across the US, collecting several thousand unique stubs. I bet that you could learn a lot abo…

Classmate of another child prodigy, one who did achieve notable accomplishment, Norbert Wiener.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James_Sidis

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#375
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll come up for air around 3 and minor hobbies will re-emerge around 5. I would recommend finding some deeply informed and interesting podcasts on subjects you expect to be helpful in order to educate yourself passively during the early years.

And many parents we know (ourselves included) give up exercise. If at all possible, try to maintain some semblance of an exercise routine.

I’ve said it before, but I’m in the best shape of my life now with two children because the YMCA has free childcare.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#376
post #373
post #224

Before I read the article, I thought the “bus ticket” was referencing William Sidis, who in the early 20th century gave a mathematics lecture at MIT at 10, a Harvard student at 11, was expected to revolutionize math but then dropped out of the public eye to write strange books, one being an etymology of train and bus tickets across the US, collecting several thousand unique stubs. I bet that you could learn a lot abo…

Does anyone have a hypothesis on why William Sidis made such a interesting pivot?

Something of a political awakening about age 21:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James_Sidis#Politics_a...

Seems to have opted out of society for the most part afterward.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#377

I agree with his theory, but what I find particularly interesting is that I think most people do not have an obsessive interest in anything at all. And as someone who has obsessive interests in a lot of things (some “useful”, some not), that seems really odd to me: how can you just be satisfied to go to work, come home, watch TV, and go to bed each day? (Not saying that’s the wrong way to live, just saying it is surp…

What separates piano and OS hscking from making dinner, for you? What is mundane versus interesting? It seems to reduce the problem back to what might lead to a useful discovery versus what won't. But piano is likely in the latter category, given that its obsessed about so often over centuries. Maybe the time for OS hacking to lead to discoveries is on its way out, as well. Obsessive cooking might be more likely to b…

I highly recommend going obsessive with cooking. It pays dividends when you can cook at home and eat like a king. I found playing with Heston Blumenthal recipes and then diving into as many cook books as possible to be the best way to start.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#378
post #224

Before I read the article, I thought the “bus ticket” was referencing William Sidis, who in the early 20th century gave a mathematics lecture at MIT at 10, a Harvard student at 11, was expected to revolutionize math but then dropped out of the public eye to write strange books, one being an etymology of train and bus tickets across the US, collecting several thousand unique stubs. I bet that you could learn a lot abo…

I had the same first thought. The book is called _Notes on the Collection of Transfers_, and is available for free on the Sidis archives:

https://www.sidis.net/TransfersContents.htm

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your advisors were acting in your best interest. There is a time and place for readable science, and your thesis is not it. It has nothing to do with the power of the guild, and everything to do with assessing your knowledge and preparation. The purpose of your thesis is to demonstrate to them (and perhaps the larger scientific community) that you can communicate to other scientist in the language of the field, that…

Well, so sorry. If things are as bad as you sketch them then there may as well be a guild. Science is first and foremost about understanding, and writing in a way that purposefully obfuscates and makes it harder to understand what is communicated is anathema to true science.

You misunderstand the purpose - it's not intentional obfuscation. Its the lingua franca of the field. A technical term can define in one phrase an entire concept that would be tedious to spell out each and every time. It can define one 'chunk' that you can then combine with other chunks to develop deeper understanding. Surely you can agree with that?

While I fully agree that ability to communicate science to the general public is incredibly important, the thesis is not necessary the place for this. Plenty of other places are (blogs, twitter, etc) and this ability is crucial for a publicly funded scientist. General large conferences that I am aware of often encourage non-technical translations of abstracts.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re completely deluded into believing that genius is overrated. While it is never in isolation, and its fruits are the product of historical necessity, it takes a rare breed of sacrifice, which PG here is saying as obsession, to hit the targets no one else sees (paraphrasing Arthur Schopenhauer); and is constitutionally the personal, moral input of an individual on choosing how to cause themselves to be, unconcern…

> You’re completely deluded into believing that genius is overrated. ... > Shame on you and your ilk for suggesting Descartes, Newton, Kant etc. were just there picking low hanging fruit. They were doing work no one had the courage to do. There's a lot of passion in your comment, but it's also really antagonistic. The person you replied to was very respectful and cogent in expressing their point of view; you abandone…

Such an aspersion is anti-heroic and trite, which is an abomination to the very civilization you stand upon and has bequeathed the motivations for computing power altogether.

Denouncing sophomoric philistinism is an incredibly appropriate act of high culture.

Post reply on HN