The China Cultural Clash • Hacker News Board

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#371

Post by wenc » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

wenc wrote: post #121

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Cook became CEO because of his logistics and operations work in China, so there is a lot of legacy to go on. Apple assembles iPhones in Brazil and I believe India now, but these are mostly for high tariff reasons. Much of what goes into an iPhone isn’t made in china (and what is made in China can easily be made elsewhere), but they are mostly made in east Asia, so having assembly done somewhere in the regio…

> Taiwan (labor is more expensive, but they could maybe rely on automation more) A few years ago, I was surprised to learn that Taiwan actually has low-cost but high-end (university-educated) labor. Ph.D. graduates abound. It is an advanced economy yet wages are surprisingly low due to its export-focused strategy and various other structural causes. Cost of living in Taiwan also appears to be pretty low, which makes…

Some additional thoughts about why Taiwan has low wages:

https://www.quora.com/Why-has-salary-growth-stagnated-in-Tai...

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#372

Post by supertiger » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #363

supertiger wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t help but think that this is about the ego of Chinese leadership It is and isn't. I grew up in China and I think the Chinese government is overacting to this NBA statement. If the Chinese fans decide to boycott NBA that's their choice and rights, but the government should not ban NBA in China. At the same time, I am frustrated to see so much misconception and lack of empathy in the discussions here. The terri…

Simply not reporting on it as solution for police brutality, delegitimizing the protestors, right after complaining about lack of empathy. We'll be probably seeing more of that rather than less: http://arnogruen.net/the_need_to_punish_--_article_by_arno_g...

I am definitely not saying there absolutely is no police brutality, especially when there are so many violent protestors. If HK police have the same protocol as US police, many extreme violent protestors would have already faced a much more serious consequence.

And I am certain there ARE lots of efforts to delegitimize the protestors. However, it's also true that the vast majority of US media choose to not report on the unimaginable violence activities carried out by many protestors on daily basis.

A few friends of mine in HK (not trying to generalize it but a valid argument) feel frustrated that they are the ones to suffer all the short and long term consequences while the "friends of HK" western media would be more than ok to watch HK burn in the fight for the true democracy that's so important and HK never had under both UK or China's governence.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#373

Post by tomaskafka » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

nnq wrote: post #252

scrumper wrote: post #27

> The internet is an amoral force that reduces friction, not an inevitable force for good. This is well said and something everyone in tech should remember. Unintended consequence is a law with teeth.

Why would you care about "good", a relative notion that means different things to different people, over reduction of friction , a clearly beneficial thing that accelerates technical and scientific progress? If we could only "dissolve" all those parts of society and culture that are mostly pure friction, and spin the wheels 100x faster to the future...

Friction is the culture. Friction is when you ask someone on a date instead of jumping on them on the street. Friction is how you don't kill someone even though you are really angry about him/her right now. Friction is how you can't turn Yosemite park into a supermarket and suburban sprawl, even though it would been profitable.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#374

Post by PavlovsCat » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 3:32 PM UTC

supertiger wrote: post #372

PavlovsCat wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply not reporting on it as solution for police brutality, delegitimizing the protestors, right after complaining about lack of empathy. We'll be probably seeing more of that rather than less: http://arnogruen.net/the_need_to_punish_--_article_by_arno_g...

I am definitely not saying there absolutely is no police brutality, especially when there are so many violent protestors. If HK police have the same protocol as US police, many extreme violent protestors would have already faced a much more serious consequence. And I am certain there ARE lots of efforts to delegitimize the protestors. However, it's also true that the vast majority of US media choose to not report on…

> especially when there are so many violent protestors

You're just doubling down on it. The protests were completely peaceful for months, and even then police already were displaying wanton brutality. To blame this on the victims is expected as it is invalid.

> If HK police have the same protocol as US police, many extreme violent protestors would have already faced a much more serious consequence.

For what, for singing?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/ddmk54/police_cap...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d1b4kg/hong_kong_...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dccy0s/hong_kong_...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/ddllcl/statement_...

Just a bunch, there's hundreds more. And yes, I'm also are of violent excesses of protesters, these do not ever justify what the cops are doing. And even with all the issues US police has, this isn't even remotely in the same ball park.

> while the "friends of HK" western media would be more than ok to watch HK burn

You're right now excusing police brutality, you don't get to point fingers like that. Nobody wants to see HK burn, I want to government to react with something OTHER than violence to what are perfectly reasonable demands, and I want the supporters of said violence to stop with the sophistry, while pretending they're the ones against violence*, against HK being a depraved place where the elderly and children get brutalized just because other people have no backbone.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#375

Post by PavlovsCat » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 3:56 PM UTC

confusedhnguy2 wrote: post #367

PavlovsCat wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're equating Americans with all Westerners, claim nobody criticized the US wars of aggression, and so on. In the end, you claim being pushed closer towards the CCP by what random people say on the interwebs, really? Do you have the faintest idea how many European countries talk shit about Germany and Germans 24/7? Only German Neo-Nazis pay close attention to any of that, nobody else would use it as excuse to vote…

I don't care how you, as an individual, think. Collectively, Westerners make themselves repulsive to the Chinese people. This isn't about some crazy people's online comments, it's how your mainstream media and your governments have represented you. A Chinese living in the US doesn't need to read HN to learn that the US is hostile towards China and the Europeans are nodding in the back seat. HN is suppose to be filled…

> I thought you are proud of your superior capitalism?

You're just talking to yourself, this is a complete waste of time.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#376

Post by jimclegg » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

swsieber wrote: post #314

throwawy4trueth wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not valid argument. The ban is a response to an individual not minding his business but China business. If the indificual say something about himself, your are right. Can you get it?

But the Chinese government only gets upset if some says something they don't like. If they say something positive, there's no issue. And when they get upset, they lash out. Tyrant, bully, abusive - there are many terms for that sort of relationship. Is it any wonder that someone is upset about it, and advocating that the U.S. gets out of it?

Now we knows what this feels like...

We had a lot of sanction happy presidents and the American population barely bat an eye-lid as millions died from the fallout.

Only thing lost in this case is money, so far.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#377

Post by crimsonalucard » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

ashelmire wrote: post #365

crimsonalucard wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think unparalleled manufacturing expertise at unparalleled prices isn't an economic gain for the entire world you need to open your biased eyes wider. Yes the west and china are economic rivals. This does not mean China has zero economic benefit to the world. To not see this is utter blindness.

I do not question their economic activity. Whether that's been for the good of anyone but China and the world's billionaires... I'm not so sure. Either way it wasn't done for the benefit of the world. China started manufacturing because they wanted to gain economic power and arrive in the 21st century.

Only billionaires gain from higher production of products? Makes sense. You never gained anything clearly because you've never purchased anything made in China.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#378

Post by simlevesque » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 7:25 PM UTC

seniorivn wrote: post #364

simlevesque wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you ignore your bully he'll stop bullying you"

Have you ever tried that somewhere but high school? That's ridiculous.

yeah, that's what I was getting at. Even in high school it might very well not work.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#379

Post by mlyle » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 12:11 AM UTC

knzhou wrote: post #152

ookblah wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese consulate in Houston put out a statement condemning the tweet. You have a track record of China using the heavy hand to dictate the messaging of corporations and individual citizens. No coordinated message in China goes through without the explicit or implicit consent of the government, even if it starts "from the people". It's not hard to make the connection here.

> The Chinese consulate in Houston put out a statement condemning the tweet. Okay, perhaps. But that could also be them jumping on a popular bandwagon. I'm just raising this doubt because I've seen, many times on sites like this, enormous panics over supposed Chinese government actions, which actually boil down to totally innocuous actions from individuals. The most common cognitive bias when the West discusses the E…

And now, according to Adam Silver: "We made clear that we were being asked to fire him, by the Chinese government, by the parties we dealt with, government and business,"