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Python Is Eating the World

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Re: Python Is Eating the World

#371

Post by LaGrange »

astonex wrote: post #42
blaisio wrote: post #33

Python has a lot of problems that really slow down development, but they are all fixable. The biggest issue, in my opinion, is in dependency management. Python has a horrible dependency management system, from top-to-bottom. Why do I need to make a "virtual environment" to have separate dependencies, and then source it my shell? Why do I need to manually add version numbers to a file? Why isn't there any builtin way…

>Most people just cross their fingers and hope dependencies don't change Is there anything wrong with pip freeze > requirements.txt and then pip install -r requirements.txt ? This would install the exact versions

It catches way too much. IPython, black and the testing libraries are _not_ a part of my actual dependencies and shouldn't be installed in production. A good UI for a dependency manager at the very least distinguishes between dev and production context, and ideally lets me define custom contexts.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#372

Post by BinaryIdiot »

zys5945 wrote: post #54
voodoochicken wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, those are caught when using pip freeze.

> Yes, those are caught when using pip freeze. No they are not. Pip freeze does not resolve transitive dependencies, nor does pip know what to do if your transitive dependencies conflict with each another.

I'm not sure about conflict resolution when but I run a pip freeze it adds TONS of dependencies outside of the 2-3 I had in my app because those were the dependencies of my dependencies.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#373

Post by KptMarchewa »

closeparen wrote: post #149
pbreit wrote: post #12

Considering Python can power the largest web sites (Netflix, Instagram), I don’t understand why there’s so much use of much more complicated platform/languages (eg java, .net)? Note: I am an amateur which is likely the reason for my ignorance.

- Language design characteristics like static typing and a general lack of support for "magic" can help maintain order in large, long-term, many-contributor codebases. - The JVM and CLR are both significantly faster and less resource intensive than CPython for a lot of workloads. - Java and .NET library ecosystems are mature and extensive. Python 2's ecosystem was also mature and extensive, but the community is in th…

>general lack of support for "magic"

Don't throw this kind of comments when in next line you're mentioning Java, where everything worth using is implemented by reflection fuckery.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#374

Post by BinaryIdiot »

astonex wrote: post #42
blaisio wrote: post #33

Python has a lot of problems that really slow down development, but they are all fixable. The biggest issue, in my opinion, is in dependency management. Python has a horrible dependency management system, from top-to-bottom. Why do I need to make a "virtual environment" to have separate dependencies, and then source it my shell? Why do I need to manually add version numbers to a file? Why isn't there any builtin way…

>Most people just cross their fingers and hope dependencies don't change Is there anything wrong with pip freeze > requirements.txt and then pip install -r requirements.txt ? This would install the exact versions

This is what I've always done. Develop using a few dependencies, freeze, continue development with reproducible builds. It has always included the sub-dependencies in the list so, as far as I can tell, this works great for that case...

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#375

Post by neya »

Daishiman wrote: post #269
neya wrote: post #209

I am currently writing Python based software for a client on serverless architecture. Honestly, I really feel like myself and a lot of people I know use Python only because it has some useful libraries like Pandas compared to other languages. In addition, the effect of 2.xx and 3.xx fiasco can still be felt during development. These days, I really wish I could write my stuff in Elixir, but too bad its data science ec…

This a complete misrepresentation of the Python philosophy and a cheap troll.

What makes you think it's a cheap troll? Please read the doctrine on how drastically different Python's philosophy is. The interpretation - It's my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#376

Post by blub »

vturner wrote: post #338
blub wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over-sensitive individuals are hard to please and often unhappy. That's more of a personality flaw than a flaw with the current state of software engineering. If there's one thing wrong with our profession is a lack of ethics and accreditation - we're essentially letting random people build critical infrastructure and utilities. We don't have a tooling problem, in fact we have too many tools. I see so many people (es…

Oversensitive? Is the contractor who chooses a Dewalt or Ridgid over a Ryobi for daily work "caring about irrelevant stuff"? A drill is a drill right? Why is it different for us in software?

I don't know anything about those brands you mentioned, but a programming language is more complex than most (all?) mechanical tools, it's designed over years and continues to change over decades.

It's impossible to do a perfect job under such conditions, and it's anyway impossible to please everyone.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#377

Post by taneq »

vturner wrote: post #338
blub wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over-sensitive individuals are hard to please and often unhappy. That's more of a personality flaw than a flaw with the current state of software engineering. If there's one thing wrong with our profession is a lack of ethics and accreditation - we're essentially letting random people build critical infrastructure and utilities. We don't have a tooling problem, in fact we have too many tools. I see so many people (es…

Oversensitive? Is the contractor who chooses a Dewalt or Ridgid over a Ryobi for daily work "caring about irrelevant stuff"? A drill is a drill right? Why is it different for us in software?

Hey I like my Ryobi drill. :(

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#378

Post by blub »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #165
KirinDave wrote: post #93

Reading this got me thinking and I wonder if other people feel like me about this, so I'm going to share it. This is not serious, but not entirely unserious... I try to be a good sport about it, but every time I write python I want to quit software engineering. It makes me angry how little it values my time. It does little for my soured disposition that folks then vehemently lecture me about the hours saved by future…

I am about to hit a decade of python experience. I work with it daily, all my major codebases are written in it. I hate it. It has an ok object system which is possibly its only redeeming quality. I found Racket about 4 years ago, and any new project that I work on will be in Racket or CL. I could go on at length about the happy path mentality of python and the apologists who are too ignorant of other people's use ca…

In order to evaluate the relevance of this comment we need to know what else you have been using for 10+ years that you like or at least think is ok.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#379

Post by estsauver »

pmontra wrote: post #330
x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From personal experience, hiring for Ruby development seemed to get a lot harder and of the few candidates that applied, many couldn't do FizzBuzz.

I've been working since the 90s and I never attempted to do FizzBuzz. Is it really relevant? Maybe to screen junior developers out of college?

So, as someone who spends maybe 20% of their time hiring, it's still a very effective screen. You wouldn't believe how many people can't do it. People at big companies, respected places. It's surprising.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#380

Post by [deleted] »

KirinDave wrote: post #93

Reading this got me thinking and I wonder if other people feel like me about this, so I'm going to share it. This is not serious, but not entirely unserious... I try to be a good sport about it, but every time I write python I want to quit software engineering. It makes me angry how little it values my time. It does little for my soured disposition that folks then vehemently lecture me about the hours saved by future…

[deleted]
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