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“Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

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Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#371

Post by soulofmischief »

yoz-y wrote: post #311
soulofmischief wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me your passage itself is an indicator that that’s not the level most three year olds are at. I think we can focus more heavily on pre-scholastic education without raising our expectations. No one ever expected me to do anything; my family tree is extremely anti-intellectual. Despite the lack of expectations, I found the motivation to educate myself. The main driving motivation was fear of not being in control o…

Where I grew up most kids were actively trying to not learn anything or at least seem to not be learning. Getting good grades was basically a social life killer, so I see your case as an exception. Hopefully times have changed, but I don't have kids yet so I have no idea how it is now.

Obviously we need more scientific research, but it's my belief that these traits are imparted at a very young age and most parents just bungle it up.

Like I said, we can't use the current average performance as an indicator of potential average performance.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#372

Post by soulofmischief »

Mirioron wrote: post #254
mc32 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me your passage itself is an indicator that that’s not the level most three year olds are at. If it were then preschool would expect more from them and society would expect more and psychology would tell us these things. But they are all at odds with your anecdote, which while sincere, I don’t think we can generalize to the population. No, Google/YouTube with all their resources and experts should do better.

Kids used to start working on family farms rather early in life. Not a full day of working but doing things here and there.

Yes, I was one of them. I've helped manage livestock and produce since before I was enrolled in school.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#373

Post by soulofmischief »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #282
mc32 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t sound mature and also is dismissive of psychological manipulation, etc. It’ll be as effective as saying, “don’t be afraid of the dark, there are no monsters, that’s just your imagination.”

That doesn’t sound mature (Shrug) Don't tell me, tell Plato. He came up with the notion. It’ll be as effective as saying, “don’t be afraid of the dark, there are no monsters, that’s just your imagination.” That's pretty effective, and something almost every parent has to tell their child at one point or another. What do you recommend saying instead?

Somewhat fitting, because Plato presented the Cave Allegory specifically to illustrate "the effect of education and the lack of it on our nature".

However, the Allegory was about how our senses and perceptions limit our full understanding of the world, not the fact that things we see on a television or stage are not real.

The former is a philosophical concept, the latter is just good advice.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#374

Post by CamperBob2 »

soulofmischief wrote: post #373
CamperBob2 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t sound mature (Shrug) Don't tell me, tell Plato. He came up with the notion. It’ll be as effective as saying, “don’t be afraid of the dark, there are no monsters, that’s just your imagination.” That's pretty effective, and something almost every parent has to tell their child at one point or another. What do you recommend saying instead?

Somewhat fitting, because Plato presented the Cave Allegory specifically to illustrate "the effect of education and the lack of it on our nature". However, the Allegory was about how our senses and perceptions limit our full understanding of the world, not the fact that things we see on a television or stage are not real. The former is a philosophical concept, the latter is just good advice.

However, the Allegory was about how our senses and perceptions limit our full understanding of the world

That's my whole point. As a parent, you not only have the authority to tell your kids not to believe anything they see on a screen or hear through a speaker, you must raise them with that understanding. They will spend their entire lives with their senses and perceptions not only limited in a Platonic sense, but under active, continuous assault.

"Somewhat fitting," indeed: https://news.stanford.edu/2019/06/05/edit-video-editing-text...

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#375

Post by low_poly_shiba »

Guest0918231 wrote: post #369
low_poly_shiba wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have, but didn't deal with this issue. I don't think this advice of "if you haven't done it you can't criticize or ask questions about it" is very good. It would bar me from commenting on and criticizing Michael Bay movies, so no thank you. I'd also like to know if the guy shuts off the ads when he makes more than is needed for maintenance costs.

No, I don't shut off the advertising. 1. That's my bill for hosting and bandwidth expenses. I obviously need to consider the cost of my time which is not included in that figure. The more money the site generates, the more time I invest in it. So, if it were to generate $150,000 from advertising, I wouldn't shut it off, but I'd start pulling my time out of other projects, and moving it into this community site to add…

How much do you need to save for a rainy day?

I've heard that line from people raking in several hundred thousand a year, while they still callously heap ads on their audiences.

If you have no target, neither for your site nor for your personal ambition, it seems like the veneer of "I tried to avoid them but couldn't" is really quite thin.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#376

Post by kalleboo »

nkrisc wrote: post #28
criddell wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they ban third-party advertising in particular? It seems like advertising should be allowed as long as it's display only with no outward information flow. Basically ads equivalent OTA television or magazine ads should be allowed.

Honestly all advertising targeted to children should be banned. It's just not fair. Children don't stand a chance against marketing crafted by adults. You're pitting the mind of a child against that of a trained, professional, adult marketer. The kid is their clay to be molded.

> Honestly all advertising targeted to children should be banned

When it comes to TV, some countries like Sweden and Norway do this. It seems the legislation hasn't caught up to the Internet though, and it may be difficult when the content comes from abroad.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#377

Post by soulofmischief »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #374
soulofmischief wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat fitting, because Plato presented the Cave Allegory specifically to illustrate "the effect of education and the lack of it on our nature". However, the Allegory was about how our senses and perceptions limit our full understanding of the world, not the fact that things we see on a television or stage are not real. The former is a philosophical concept, the latter is just good advice.

However, the Allegory was about how our senses and perceptions limit our full understanding of the world That's my whole point. As a parent, you not only have the authority to tell your kids not to believe anything they see on a screen or hear through a speaker, you must raise them with that understanding. They will spend their entire lives with their senses and perceptions not only limited in a Platonic sense, but u…

I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying.

Plato wasn't making a case for discerning fact from fiction using obviously fictitious sources (literature, dramas, TV, your friend Rob, etc).

He was illustrating that our own senses and perceptions prohibit us from seeing reality in an objective nature.

He compared the escaped prisoner to an enlightened philosopher, who has learned to use his mind and abstract thinking in order to see what his eyes cannot.

Plato isn't saying, "Don't believe what you read in the newspaper," he is saying, "Don't trust your eyes and ears at all, because your entire reality might be false."

That doesn't very much help a kid understand not to believe what he sees in advertisements or to distrust friendly faces who want to control them.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#378

Post by repolfx »

petre wrote: post #263
Mirioron wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a disconnect between who plays/uses the app and who pays. How do you know that it's worth the money if you're not going to play it?

Make the first level free, charge for subsequent levels.

That would require in-app purchases, no?

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#379

Post by repolfx »

majewsky wrote: post #43
nkrisc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly all advertising targeted to children should be banned. It's just not fair. Children don't stand a chance against marketing crafted by adults. You're pitting the mind of a child against that of a trained, professional, adult marketer. The kid is their clay to be molded.

> Children don't stand a chance against marketing crafted by adults. Nobody can stand a chance against someone well-versed in applied psychology (i.e. a marketer).

The fact that so much advertising barely works is the basis of Google's entire business model. The idea that adverts are all made by masters of psychological manipulation is laughable - most of it is considered successful of it just manages to get the name noticed and remembered at all.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#380

Post by blub »

paulcole wrote: post #348
blub wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can know who their contacts are and where they are for instance. Apps do request these permissions, sometimes for legitimate reasons and analytics frameworks then take advantage of that data: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/loca...

What contacts does a toddler have?

Kids under 2 should not even use devices, we're talking about older kids.

Furthermore, those older kids are almost certainly using their parents' device.

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