A Conspiracy to Kill IE6 • Hacker News Board

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#371

Post by Shorel » Fri, May 03, 2019, 12:50 PM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #202

To anyone thinking it was a good deed: please remember that later Google used similar techiniques against other browsers, like Opera. They showed a warning about an "unsupported browser" but if the user changed user-agent to Firefox or Chrome, everything worked. Another example is Web version of Skype which is very picky and doesn't work in many browsers, like mobile browsers, or slightly outdated Firefox. For exampl…

> Another example is Web version of Skype which is very picky and doesn't work in many browsers, like mobile browsers, or slightly outdated Firefox.

AFAIK Web Skype no longer works in any version of Firefox.

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#372

Post by vetinari » Fri, May 03, 2019, 12:58 PM UTC

c0vfefe wrote: post #369

vetinari wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not that complicated to understand: While Google and Mozilla are competitors, Web apps and Chrome at Google are being made by entirely different team. Unless there is a mandate from the top to the web teams, it is irrelevant. They could be as well a different companies. > Linux just gets less priority because it's quite frankly irrelevant as a Desktop OS. That's exactly the point I was making: Firefox is also…

The problem is not the argument, but the conclusion of willful negligence. Firefox neglecting Linux is not an underhanded business decision because Mozilla stands to gain nothing by ignoring Linux; but Chrome does directly compete with Firefox. That's the point people here are making.

Google actually needs Firefox to be around the most; for the same reason, why Microsoft invested into Apple after their antitrust case.

There's no other explanation for Mozilla's attitude towards Linux than negligence; objectively, it is neglected. The degree of willfulness is up to the debate.

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#373

Post by Retra » Fri, May 03, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #139

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADP announced deprecation for IE10 and IE11 last year. They apparently didn't realize that Edge doesn't run in Win7 which many of their customers still have deployed, given the issues surrounding Win8 and 10. I guess they can use this as an excuse to not upgrade their shitshow flash app that beings a multi-core processor to it's knees just navigating between entry fields.

The OS upgrade is/was free, and IE11 is nearly 6 years old at this point. There are also other/current browsers available for Windows 7. There's really no excuse to not have a current browser.

There's no excuse to consider software obsolete after a mere 6 years.

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#374

Post by ddingus » Fri, May 03, 2019, 3:57 PM UTC

buffalo2391 wrote: post #229

tatersolid wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is demonstrably nonsense. Windows 10 only suggests Edge if you make IE11 your default browser. If you choose Firefox or Chrome it never suggests that you should switch to Edge. Microsoft’s lawyers are not stupid.

This isn't exactly accurate, I've had multiple menus telling me to switch to edge from chrome.

They are missing an awesome opportunity. Provide a place for people to say why they won't.

A lot of that input will be garbage. Some seriously laughable in a good way, a few gems.

Why not get them?

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#375

Post by jitbit » Fri, May 03, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

I remember showing this banner to our boss saying "hey, we should do that too, look EVEN GOOGLE DOES THAT" at the company I worked back then.

And we did.

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#376

Post by kofman » Fri, May 03, 2019, 11:41 PM UTC

puzzle wrote: post #261

Oh, God. I forgot about the empty src bug. YouTube wasn't the only substantial Google service affected by it from time to time. But I remember it differently. Yes, it triggered a GET for /. But that generated HTML (usually the service's homepage, as was our case), which the browser would attempt to parse as an image, obviously failing. It would not trigger a recursive fetching of all the resources on the page. Even w…

The particular change Chris is referring to was in implementing delay load for the related video thumbnails. Now as you may imagine the /watch page gets most of the traffic and is hyper optimized. Now imagine every load of /watch hitting the much more dynamic and personalized and much less optimized homepage 10-15 times :)

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#377

Post by codedokode » Sat, May 04, 2019, 12:51 AM UTC

Shorel wrote: post #371

codedokode wrote: post #202

To anyone thinking it was a good deed: please remember that later Google used similar techiniques against other browsers, like Opera. They showed a warning about an "unsupported browser" but if the user changed user-agent to Firefox or Chrome, everything worked. Another example is Web version of Skype which is very picky and doesn't work in many browsers, like mobile browsers, or slightly outdated Firefox. For exampl…

> Another example is Web version of Skype which is very picky and doesn't work in many browsers, like mobile browsers, or slightly outdated Firefox. AFAIK Web Skype no longer works in any version of Firefox.

Unless you change user-agent to "Edge 15" and it starts working, including audio calls (tested on Debian and FF60 ESR).

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#378

Post by hackily » Sat, May 04, 2019, 3:17 AM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #251

j_koreth wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they're still loading a version of the website which Trident/Edgekit which used to make up for the discrepancies between the other browsers.

The Edge devs went out of their way to craft a useragent that doesn't trigger Edge UA sniffing, which is why the pages used to work until Google intentionally broke them in Edge.

Do you have any sources that talk about these breaking issues? I wouldn't be entirely shocked that Google would be doing this, but I do want to see more than just one anecdote that it's ill intent rather than incompetence.

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#379

Post by SXX » Sat, May 04, 2019, 4:56 AM UTC

Teknoman117 wrote: post #347

SXX wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, tomorrow Google can implement a DRM that would require a plugin that works on Windows, Android (with Google Play Services) or Mac, but not on Linux I was reading your comment and wasn't sure if it's well hidden sarcasm or you are seriously don't know this already happened: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19553941 Basically you cannot watch high resolutions streams on Linux already even in Google C…

But what was the alternative before? Remember none of us could watch Netflix on Linux because they built the whole thing on Silverlight.

It's not really about alternatives. Before no one pretended that proprietary blob is some part of the web - everyone knew it for what it is: ugly black-box plugin. And any engineer knew how easily is it to bypass said DRM.

Problem with what Google among others did is that they was actually in position to push against making something like that part of the web specification. Yet they went all in and what worse become gatekeeper for new web browsers to implement Widevine DRM.

Same way Google might push for more open Android ecosystem, but it's not their interests so they did the opposite. And with all Chrome-exclusive features and AMP it's pretty much the same thing happening.

Re: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6

#380

Post by tatersolid » Sat, May 04, 2019, 11:13 AM UTC

dralley wrote: post #272

tatersolid wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is demonstrably nonsense. Windows 10 only suggests Edge if you make IE11 your default browser. If you choose Firefox or Chrome it never suggests that you should switch to Edge. Microsoft’s lawyers are not stupid.

This is a lie. Every single time I've tried to switch a Windows 10 installation to default to Firefox, it asks about trying Edge first.

I think I must be missing out due to Enterpise licensing.

With Win10 Enterpise I’ve never encountered pop-up nags for Edge when changing the browser. Links are never redirected into Edge even from other MSFT products.

This is on like three different Win10 enterprise laptops.

I’ll have to ask the help desk guys what they do to our corporate images if anything. To me it looks like plain-vanilla Win10 Enterpise while deploying from our WDS server.