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We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

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Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#371

Post by Aeolun »

loteck wrote: post #40

As an employee, it is valuable to me that my company will not hire someone who doesn't think our business does something important ("get over yourselves, you're not curing cancer"), or who thinks the right way to ask business decision questions is to ask if "you're morons", or who has a problem with the company asking very basic probing questions, such as confirming you've thought through the challenge of changing fr…

Hint, your business isn’t important. The business I’m working for makes lives a lot easier, but if it disappeared tomorrow it wouldn’t hurt anyone overly much.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#372

Post by ianai »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #365
iliketosleep wrote: post #25

I've always assumed that the so-called "talent shortage" was an excuse to get cheap labor from abroad. They make job ads such that it's improbable that a local will meet the highly specific requirements, after which they complain of a skills shortage, and then they have their excuse to import cheap labor.

I actually recently spoke to somebody who said his job was to exactly this. He said they'd find a remote candidate, with random skills X, Y, Z, and his company would then craft a very specific job opening that could only ever match this particular employee. After enough people couldn't be found locally they'd have a legal justification for a work visa.

That’s clearly not illegal but should be.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#373

Post by kabdib »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #329
dangero wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to give a slightly different perspective on this as a cofounder of a startup. First of all it sounds like there was some really dishonest communication and there is no excuse for that. As far as salary goes, I absolutely cannot afford to compete and hire at market rate prices so I rely on: -People who are motivated by other factors than money (everyone at our company took a pay cut to join). We have schedule f…

How do you reconcile this statement: First of all it sounds like there was some really dishonest communication and there is no excuse for that. With this one: People who are unaware of their market value

I've seen very-underpaid people go through the realization that they've been taken advantage of.

Sometimes it's worked out; the company gives them a big raise, a lump sum in the key of "Sorry!" and the person remains a happy and productive -- and wiser -- member of the team.

Usually they're gone within months, though. And often other people follow ("You got /how/ much at OtherCorp?").

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#374

Post by OJFord »

pault wrote: post #64
OJFord wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'd see that as much more attractive for any not already pretty much 'made it' startup. It's a nearer term reward, and a more direct incentive (not just because it's nearer, but because `profit => reward` vs. `profit => ceteris paribus 'worth more' => might IPO/sell => reward`).

How many new companies are profitable, and if they are, why would you want to work for a new company that isn't plowing all of its profits back into research, product development, and growth?

Doesn't all of that apply to equity too?

I'm only saying that profit sharing sounds better than equity, of an unknown unproven startup; not that it'sa guaranteed key to making you rich.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#375

Post by YawningAngel »

owldimoon wrote: post #168
marcinzm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ones who are good salesman do get takers. I don't really know why or how but they get them. Not the greatest engineers but also not bottom feeders. It's surreal. Granted it's usually people who don't realize their own worth or are naive about how much equity is actually going to be worth.

Hey, uh. So, I'm going to be graduating with a B.Eng soon. Any tips on how to realize my own worth? I have a tendency to let myself be taken advantage of... I mean, I'm currently doing a research internship at a computer vision lab at my uni for very little compensation (grant + departmental top-up). I told myself I was doing it "for the experience." I... I feel like I might be a candidate for the behavior you descri…

Brush up on Cracking the Coding Interview, interview at the top N companies wherever you can face living, research salaries for that area (levels.fyi is good if you're in the bay area, I'm told)

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#376

Post by koala_man »

sergiotapia wrote: post #364
cosmodisk wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However,the reality is that most people simply can't do it. Take an average office and try to teach everyone how to code. after a month, 99% will know how to output text to console, 10% would probably be able to write a loop or two and maybe 1 or 2 guys will realise that development is their real calling. Those 2 guys will spend the next 5-7 years just to get to the point where people would start taking them serious…

Companies are long-term thinking. Who gives a shit if it takes 10 years, they can wait.

A lot of the major tech companies are just barely ten years old themselves.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#377

Post by refurb »

burtonator wrote: post #5

I had a recruiter call me a year ago with what sounded like a really amazing offer. Working for a well funded startup on a problem in which I happen to be a domain expert. They're aren't many expects in my field with my background and skill set and they said the right things to get me to interview (compensation won't be a concern). Anyway... Went in for 4-5 interviews. Took me about 10 hours in total to interview wit…

Same thing happened to me. Exciting company, leadership opportunities, etc.

The asked how much I was looking for, I told them X, which was 25% more than I was getting now and on the high-end for a similar role. They say ok.

Interview goes great, everyone loves me, offer time. They offer me X-20%. WTF? That’s basically what I’m making now and they didn’t offer big company perks like 401k match, stock grants, etc. So in fact, the offer was less than I was currently getting. They were willing to go up to X-15%, but no higher.

Why say ok when someone says they want X, then make an offer way lower than X?

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#378

Post by rajangdavis »

I spent the last year looking for a new job and it was extremely demotivating at times.

The company that I ended up accepting an offer for started off with a recruiter who talked to me about my background and then asked a few technical questions to screen whether or not I knew the technologies that they were hiring for. Passed the recruiter screen.

Interviewed with a hiring manager and then interviewed with the team with some technical challenges that were more to see how it would be like to work together. Talking to the team made me feel excited to work with them and the technical challenges were straight forward. I was able to look up and use some code that I had written previously to solve part of the challenge.

I ended up with an offer higher than what I asked for. Part of me feels as though this is almost too good to be true but I don't know if I am just really jaded by the entire hiring process.

I faced so much rejection that landing the position that I am starting soon makes me feel like I am either extremely lucky or maybe I'm just another sucker; however, this company definitely set the standard for me as far as interviewing/hiring process.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#379

Post by antt »

wolco wrote: post #130
lordnacho wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done that, and during peak hiring periods it does get a bit intense, but I think it's essential it's done by a coder, not an HR person. It's also something to give your day a bit of variety. And the big plus is you get to decide who you want to work with.

Why should you get a say in who works with you? As a team lead I'm trying to find the right balance. If we hire only people the current devs like we endup having too many similiar developers with the same mindset and shortcomings. Trying to have a more diverse, balanced team means you don't get a say.

I would like some evidence that balanced teams are good.

Given that in higher dimensional finite spaces all the points are close to the edges of the space you would expect the most unbalanced teams to be the most successful ones because they can explore the parts of the solution space where you have the highest chance of finding a profitable solution.

Unix was not build by well rounded people. Xanadu was.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#380

Post by wolfgke »

mgleason_3 wrote: post #289
revvx wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same thing happen to me a couple times. Long and tiring process. Blackboard, make a project, lots of dirty laundry about "long gone incompetent developers" that made the current system a giant mess. Lots of red flags but lots of promises including a large maximum salary, including bonuses and stock options. The final offer, however, was 60% of my current pay. Lower than the average for someone with my exper…

This - we really need a law requiring companies post what the jobs pays. It would solve so many problems - including ones like this, gender discrimination, etc.

> This - we really need a law requiring companies post what the jobs pays. It would solve so many problems - including ones like this, gender discrimination, etc.

A much simpler solution: if lots of programmers would strongly avoid to take jobs at companies that do not tell the salary upfront, the problem would disappear by itself.

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