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Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

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Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#371

Post by [deleted] »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #362
erikpukinskis wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can build an app, just as anyone can build a house. But if you want a roof that won’t rot for 20 years, you need to pay someone who knows how to build a proper house. By the same token, if you want an app that will still be maintainable in 5 years, you need a professional. An amateur can build most requirements, but the architecture will seize up if it’s just layers of hacks. It’s sort of an interesting situat…

Eh, I haven’t seen any evidence that experienced professionals can build a website that will last for 5 years either. Business requirements inevitably requires hacks and kludges, and abstraction layers implemented to deal with the problems of today become tomorrow’s layer that everyone wants to rewrite or refactor.

[deleted]

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#372

Post by paulcole »

Aeolun wrote: post #310
paulcole wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t stop at high school. No rich parent is paying $50k a year so their kid can get a C.

50k for the opportunity to score an A. Not for the guarantee. That would make the A utterly valueless.

An honors degree from Harvard (or another Ivy) is still rare (with respect to the general public) and has value even if everyone who graduates gets one.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#373

Post by sethammons »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #268
erikpukinskis wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I got into that situation, I’d use a kitchen timer. Divide the total amount of time I had for that assignment by the number of students. Set the timer for that amount. Read as much of the assignment as I could, and then just guess the right grade. I made it clear to students that if they felt the grade was wrong, or they wanted more detailed feedback, I’d be happy to read it again. I grade quickly and mistak…

Or you were giving too much work, and it was reflecting and multiplying on your side. What would have happened if you gave the amount of work that would have reflected on you a normal amount to grade, assuming an 8 hour day/5 day week? Simply put: why do you punish students, and then complain (and not do your work) when you assign too much, by your very own standards?

For me, to give an amount of work for students as to not extend my week beyond 40 hours would have meant no more than 45 minutes of non-instruction time per day. Lesson planning for one day typically took longer than that, aided by the fact as I taught three courses. So, out the gate, there is no time for homework, assessments, projects, student help outside class time, tracking grades, reaching out to parents when kids need some more support, dealing with disruptive students, etc.

More simply put, if I had only given out enough work as to keep me at 40 hr/wk, there would have only been end of unit tests with no retakes that were only multiple choice (still would have gone over the 40 hr, but it would still have to happen) and any disruptive students would have been walking around campus (because I was not allowed to send them to the VP or detention as there was no room) where I would face liability if they came to harm (which was a real possibility - we had a kid murdered 5 feet off campus once, stabbed to death).

Man, I am so thankful for my career in development.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#374

Post by dan-robertson »

plankers wrote: post #355
grecy wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sounds like a privileged position that is unrealistic for many teachers Well sure, he lives in Australia which has much, much better working conditions than the USA. It sounds like your girlfriend is being taken advantage of and working in a situation that is not to her benefit. In which case she needs to start looking for a new job!

In which case nobody would be teaching the kids art. Of course she's being taken advantage of, she's a teacher in 21st century western civilization.

The comment you are replying to mentions a teacher who doesn’t seem to be being taken advantage of. Your comment seems to imply that all teachers in 21st century western civilisation are taken advantage of. Do you mean that the Australian teacher mentioned is still being taken advantage of, or that Australia is not western civilisation (or that they are not working in the 21st century)?

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#375

Post by em-bee »

dorchadas wrote: post #324
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s, assuming you work 48 weeks a year, 20 full days spent in transportation though...

To be honest, I find it worth it. I can use the time to listen to podcasts and generally just unwind, or I can use it to prepare. I tried living in the area for a while, and it was just awful. Seeing students everywhere I went got old quick, especially cause they would awkwardly stare and such, as if they couldn't imagine teachers having lives outside of school. It was the worst at the gym, especially if I wanted to…

ever since i discovered podcasts, audiodrama and audiobooks i stopped dreading a long commute. on the contrary, i now look forward to it, because those 2-3 hours are the most quiet of the day. and while i was an avid reader in my youth, i haven't read any books for decades until recently. now i average a book per month.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#376

Post by erikpukinskis »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #362
erikpukinskis wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can build an app, just as anyone can build a house. But if you want a roof that won’t rot for 20 years, you need to pay someone who knows how to build a proper house. By the same token, if you want an app that will still be maintainable in 5 years, you need a professional. An amateur can build most requirements, but the architecture will seize up if it’s just layers of hacks. It’s sort of an interesting situat…

Eh, I haven’t seen any evidence that experienced professionals can build a website that will last for 5 years either. Business requirements inevitably requires hacks and kludges, and abstraction layers implemented to deal with the problems of today become tomorrow’s layer that everyone wants to rewrite or refactor.

Refactoring over the five years is the opportunity a good developer gives you.

When I say the architecture “seizes up” I mean it gets to the point where

1) a refactor that would shave 100 points off your annual planned work costs more than 100 points

and 2) hacks are slowing your pace to the point that a realistic estimate for your annual planned work is growing faster than your team is working it down.

Note that in such a situation you will still be “getting things done” but your costs are rising while your output is decreasing. Eventually that grinds to a halt and your team will demand a costly and often fatal 2.0 cycle.

A good developer can refactor as they work, and say no to unworkable plans, such that your cost per point grows only linearly, so you can maintain stable feature output while growing your staff linearly.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#377

Post by krapp »

closeparen wrote: post #370
krapp wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. If you choose to dedicate the bulk of your waking life to creating wealth for your employer, you should be compensated, at a minimum, well enough to feed, clothe and house yourself. or there should be something like UBI in place to allow employers to decouple the cost of keeping their employees alive from the cost of doing business.

The point of this example is that making paper hats creates little to no wealth. No one is going to compensate you handsomely for whatever random activity you choose - there has to be demand.

A living wage, or even minimum wage, isn't being "compensated handsomely," it's being compensated at least enough to survive.

If having someone make paper hats 40 hours a week is a bad business model, that's not the employee's concern. Why should the person running the paper hat making business expect to make a living at it, but not the person making the hats?

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#378

Post by erikpukinskis »

Aeolun wrote: post #317
erikpukinskis wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Princeton doesn’t provide any better instruction than a good state school. What it provides is a circle of friends for your son or daughter that come from a different socioeconomic class. Which will allow your kids to operate smoothly in that class when they get out of college.

And feel like the pauper their entire college period?

Maybe. But still leave a pauper who understands how princes think.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#379

Post by em-bee »

blitmap wrote: post #230

I'm going to state a couple of strong opinions and hope it doesn't backfire on me: 1) Teachers should be paid more. 2) Teachers shouldn't be pressured to work so many hours off the clock (after school). 3) Teachers may continue to make their own lesson plans, but they should always have available lesson plans available to them. 4) School administrations should protect teachers from harassing parents. 5) The number of…

not sure about 5, as mentioned by others, and i would split nr 9 into two parts. i agree with not needing a masters degree, but teachers certainly need serious training in educating and handling children.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#380

Post by burmer »

allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

Which union was this? I was trying to explain this to my wife, who is a teacher, and she was shellshocked, so I wanted to check on the details.
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