Coders Automating Their Own Job • Hacker News Board

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#371

Post by Wwhite » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:10 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #124

wvenable wrote: post #8

It should be noted that programmers are not automating themselves out of programming jobs . They're automating themselves out of data entry, or testing, or any number of other mindless tasks easily done by computers.

Yes. In programming, laziness is a virtue. To some degree, so is the desire to work on interesting problems instead of boring problems. Those generally intersect to provide an enormous benefit to everyone.

A Perl reference, I think :) http://wiki.c2.com/?LazinessImpatienceHubris

As a sysadmin who started out replacing power supplies as a datacenter tech, and nowadays wrangles AWS auto-scaling groups, the idea of _not_ automating away the tedious parts of my job is pretty hilarious. I had one operations/support job where this was the case, and thankfully, I quit after one month.

If anyone out there has the gumption to cobble together a dev environment and automate away their BS job, yet can't get recognition from your employer; it is time to seek out a new job, you've certainly got the skills for something better!

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#372

Post by datavirtue » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:11 PM UTC

tummybug wrote: post #331

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I find fascinating about the article is that it's assumed the cleverness was the code written to automate. This is incorrect; the cleverness is in noticing when a task can be automated. Typically, the code itself is trivial. I have told my work more than once that if they wanted to get the most out of me they should put me on the "front line" for a month or two, and let me decide what needs to be automated.…

I have also asked this, I can't understand why my managers always think its a joke idea.

It's a nervous laugh. Send the right emails and they will not be laughing.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#373

Post by anonu » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:19 PM UTC

subroutine wrote: post #199

munk-a wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, the solution to remove stock market traders is to figure out a way to examine financial data and projections to such a fine degree that stock trading is no longer a sensible thing. Imagine a currency trader focused on USD & CAD, what would happen to their job if Canada decided to permanently pin their currency on the USD with a guaranteed exchange of .5 USD for 1 CAD, the markets surrounding arbitraging t…

To name just a tiny fraction of things that'd be required for a perfect stalemate between automated stock trading platforms (due to them all being able to predict the market with perfect accuracy): * actions of any given platform doesn't meaningfully influence the market * all have ability to forecast weather with 100% accuracy * all have ability to perfectly predict human behavior * all acquire the exact same news a…

>> * actions of any given platform doesn't meaningfully influence the market

Yes - this... Buying or selling even 1 share in the markets adds information to this giant calculating engine. Anything you do will alter the course of the future.

I've never seen a backtested strategy that didn't look great on paper. The moment you drop it into the market - you can take a steep discount to your expectations.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#374

Post by teekert » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:21 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #329

godelski wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the quote "The harder I work the luckier I get." applies here. Hard work results in being able to take advantage of more opportunities. But you still have to have those opportunities. I think this is a case where people confuse correlation and causation. Hard work correlates with success, but it doesn't cause success.

It depends on what you work hard on, as you say in your other comment. You can work very hard on things that never advance you in life (many people do!) or you can work less hard on things that lead to opportunities and advancement. > Hard work correlates with success, but it doesn't cause success. Absolutely, that's a key part, I think.

There is hard work and smart work, if you simply work hard you may or may not advance the way you want, based on luck. If you work smart you will advance the way you want, but not as fast as someone who works smart and a tad harder ;)

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#375

Post by wallstquant » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:22 PM UTC

How is a programmers value add usually measured?

I am a researcher/trader and I spend a large portion of my time programming, but I am ultimately paid off the change in profitability of the strategies I've worked on and not on the code I've written. It's a means to an end.

When someone is working on a purely technical project, how can they successfully argue for the value of their work? How do you measure the value of a purely technical project? Are there other metrics that matter?

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#376

Post by rosege » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:22 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #325

nstart wrote: post #251

This article really highlights how odd our methods of valuing output are. Ultimately if someone is idling for 6 years because they've written a program to do their job for them, who cares? They are delivering the same output which hopefully the company deemed was valued at X amount BECAUSE it delivers Y amount of profit/returns. This article is actually touching on a deeper level of dysfunction in how we do things li…

> They are delivering the same output which hopefully the company deemed was valued at X amount BECAUSE it delivers Y amount of profit/returns. The output is actually even better in my experience. I know in the tasks that we've automated the output is always 100% consistent, which is more than can be said for the previous human output. Also there's a lot of value in having someone on hand who actually understands the…

And is their salary tied to productivity increases from that automation or hours at their desk?

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#377

Post by collyw » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:24 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #322

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I find fascinating about the article is that it's assumed the cleverness was the code written to automate. This is incorrect; the cleverness is in noticing when a task can be automated. Typically, the code itself is trivial. I have told my work more than once that if they wanted to get the most out of me they should put me on the "front line" for a month or two, and let me decide what needs to be automated.…

If your work is "laughing off" your suggestions and putting you down I'd seriously consider finding a better employer.

Managers always think that they are smarter than coders. Lets face it if they admitted that we could make business decision well there wouldn't be much need for them.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#378

Post by dbmk » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:28 PM UTC

aplummer wrote: post #354

jillesvangurp wrote: post #353

If you are getting money for not working because you automated your job away, good for you. But you should be aware that your company will likely not survive very long because it is being mismanaged. Chances are that it has smarter competitors already. Usually it is just a matter of time before the shit hits the fan. So, you might want to consider using your time preparing for that eventuality. E.g. spend some time l…

I think you underestimate how defensible some businesses are. For example, a supermarket or bank in Australia. “A matter of time” could be your entire career.

Yes. I worked for a company that has such a moat surrounding its line of products, it will a couple of decades to erode. 70% of the people there were doing very little on a day-to-day.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#379

Post by anticensor » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:32 PM UTC

megamindbrian2 wrote: post #29

I use a calendar pretty heavily to stay on task. I automatically accepted meeting invites because my job was so boring going to meetings was probably the only good part. My managers found out I accepted them automatically and told me to turn it off. Instead of turning it off I put a 5 minute delay on the invite receipt. I was laid off for "attitude problems".

You should have implemented a probabilistic acceptor with probability around ½.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#380

Post by YinglingLight » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:36 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #212

kbenson wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there exists a large contingent of people who believe with all of their heart that God wanted them to find it, that the person who lost it should have been more careful, that they are just having a lucky day. A large part of how America sees work, poverty and wealth was historically influenced by the Protestant Work Ethic, and I think that lingers quite a bit today. I think it's why a lot of people view the poor as…

Okay, I’ll bite. I don’t think this large contingency of people exists. I’m sure a lot of people would keep lost money rather than turn it in, but I’m very skeptical that there is a widespread view that this is an acceptable or justifiable action.

>who believe with all of their heart that God wanted them to find it

Yeah OP is way off on his God scapegoat. People in the West are far more likely to not return a lost wallet due to the wide variance in cultural identity. Japanese people have such a shared identity which promotes a level of empathy that only Americans in small towns could hope to replicate. Call it hospitality. Religion has nothing to do with it.