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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

zdnet.com

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#371

Post by frockington »

brewdad wrote: post #327
mostlyskeptical wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine go down fairly regularly. I have even been cut a check for adding cars to my insurance.

Are you changing insurance companies regularly? Why would an insurance company have any reason to reduce your rates unless legally required to? Even if they've been overcharging you for years compared to competitors, if you aren't calling them up and threatening to change insurers, why would they ever give you money back?

Probably the same reason airplanes have frequent flyer miles. If a customer has proven to be low hassle you don't want to lose them

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#372

Post by Floegipoky »

fixermark wrote: post #293
drb91 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for this claim?

The general public and repeatedly-reported-upon understanding of how data collection can be leveraged to find unexpected insights not obvious from the data, coupled with the Snowden leaks, coupled with the ever-increasing user count for cellphones, Facebook, Twitter, and the Internet in general. If people were deeply individually concerned about the risks vs. rewards of these technologies, they'd stop using them. Tha…

Kind of like how automobiles are a luxury, and if people cared about the 4th Amendment they just wouldn't drive anywhere. Nevermind that our way of life is literally not possible without the technologies in question.

Every single one of the revelations you've mentioned was met with public backlash, followed by either a misinformation campaign or intense dog-wagging. This is called manufactured consent. For example, let's look at Cambridge Analytica. When it was revealed that a military contractor was hired to subvert the 2016 Presidential election, the dominant story in the alphabet-soup media was a twitter tantrum from Trump. As it became clear over the next few days that the story wasn't going to be buried easily, the narrative was quickly shifted away from the subversion of democracy to blaming Facebook for leaking user data, culminating in parading The Zuck before Congress. He played his part perfectly: no bread, but enough circus to keep the masses from thinking too hard about what it means for an election to be free.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#373

Post by jiveturkey »

> one of the biggest gaps in US privacy law.

Gaps? How about lack of?

https://content.next.westlaw.com/6-502-0467?transitionType=D...

General Laws: Not Applicable.

Sectoral Laws: There is no national law.

----

How outrageous and disgusting that congress can make a big show of questioning facebook over privacy, when they don't have the courage to pass even moderate data privacy laws. How much do you want to bet this location data will be ignored by congress?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#375

Post by gm-conspiracy »

adventured wrote: post #114
Qwertie wrote: post #35

The worst part is there isn't any possible way I know of to defend yourself against this other than not having a phone.

Until/unless they modify the law - turning off your phone thwarts it. While your phone is powered off, it has no ability to track & record your location movements. Obviously your active location will then be picked back up after you power it on, it won't have a record of anything inbetween. A simple example of limiting the invasiveness using this approach, would be to have your phone on only at work & home, or simila…

So, use Google voice or setup your own w/ Twilio (try all numbers), and have a work cellphone and a home cellphone, a one-way pager (for when you are traveling), and another travel phone without a battery that you would use if necessary, based on the pager message?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#376

Post by AlexCoventry »

OrganicMSG wrote: post #356
fixermark wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they? The vast quantity of users find it incredibly useful and have no reason to be concerned about governments or third parties being able to determine their geographic location, because governments or third parties don't generally care.

Mass surveillance is not really for investigating individuals. The game being played is not '1984', it is 'Foundation'. It is for steering entire societies, and this works far better on the boring people who think they have nothing to hide as they are the easiest to model

I agree the greater emphasis is Foundation-style analysis, but really, it's for both.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#377

Post by Theodores »

metalliqaz wrote: post #274
mr_overalls wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good start would be using a prepaid mobile phone (paid with cash, via an intermediary to avoid appearing on store CCTV), plus using phone apps that are not tied to your real identity. A Faraday bag for the phone when it's not in use. Honestly, it just depends on how paranoid you want to get, and who your adversary is.

Last I heard, buying a "burner" phone in this way has been outlawed in many states.

I have been 'caught' buying a burner phone - many years ago - and since then I have thought about why it is that anyone can buy a burner phone without having to produce their mother's birth certificate and many years of bank statements. You would think 'terrorists' and drug dealers should be banned from such purchases.

However, if you have a burner phone for whatever reason, you are tracked and it is a relatively simple task for a three letter agency to see when that burner phone swaps cell towers and what other phones swap cell towers at the same time.

Consequently, for tracking purposes, letting anyone have a phone is what they want.

Even with the best efforts at 'operational security' a mere mortal is going to end up getting tracked.

Think of it a bit like 'shadow Facebook profiles'.

For instance, in the drug dealer scenario, the guy has one phone to speak to his mum and girlfriend and another set of interchangeable burner phones for his customers. It is all too easy. I am sure that the agencies can turn on the cameras too, fortunately the police still run Windows XP and have too much paperwork to fill in for this type of stuff.

After reading this article I am not so sure this will be the case for long.

Regarding the 'nothing to hide' rationale, if anyone has had a sick, crazy psychopath stalker pursue them for YEARS then being on the electoral roll or being on Facebook can be as good as fatal. There are good reasons to not want to be tracked, even if you have one stupid person focused 24/7 on stalking you rather than an agency/police force doing it.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#378

Post by gm-conspiracy »

hanspeter wrote: post #360
metalliqaz wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airplane mode would work, yes. But it only works against the cell provider. The on-phone GPS can still work and sync the data later.

I would imagine the airplane mode deactivates GPS signal recipience?

Why?

Would it only prevent transmission of radio signals, not reception of them.

Just the TX, not the RX.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#379

Post by yosito »

bckygldstn wrote: post #300
yosito wrote: post #39

Has anyone suggested a practical way that people can avoid being tracked? (Aside from Airplane Mode or keeping your phone in a Faraday Cage)

Use a service like Twilio or Google Voice.

This occurred to me. It solves part of the problem, in that your phone number isn't tied to a physical location anymore. But it creates a new problem in that you don't actually have a cellular connection.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#380

Post by xfitm3 »

delecti wrote: post #169
xfitm3 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While unreliable it wouldn't be unrealistic to use wifi in densely populated areas. It looks like the pager industry is still alive, too.

Most wifi hotspots have location information anyway, so your phone will know where it is, and then one of the many apps on your phone can report back with that information. And isn't a pager just a really simple cell phone? I'm not sure how that's a solution if cell towers can triangulate your position.

I should have been clearer: One way pagers seem to still exist. They do not transmit.
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