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Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

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Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#371

Post by Lionsion »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #342
rock_hard wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you are trolling or serious...I guess I and about 2B others might be using facebook differently than you then? I also don't find any of the data that FB or Google have of me "disturbingly extensive" or that they have been "breaking laws" to get it. I give them data so they can provide value to my life...it's as simple as that! If that deal doesn't work for you then you simply shouldn't use their produ…

I work at a telco/ISP, where I am directly responsible for multiple web-accessible and internal applications that have to be GDPR-compliant. I assure you that I am absolutely not trolling. As a professional, I take the GDPR extremely seriously, and in my private life I am very interested in keeping my private information private. Have you downloaded FB's data dump of you? That is only the bare surface of what they co…

> They do not give you access to the underlying profiling and the social graph they have built on your information.

There are hints of it though. I noticed in my most recent data dump there was a list of "contacts." Some of those were people who I was never Facebook friends with and included contact information (e.g. alternate emails) that I never had.

It seems like this data was built off of people's phone contact lists. It definitely seems like my contact list was the root of mine.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#372

Post by hiram112 »

Bromskloss wrote: post #292
hiram112 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been (down voted) for saying this before: it is not just ads that they are selling. The big money is going to be selling your profile to everyone, including insurers - health, auto, home, etc. Good luck getting a good deal when they know how much you drink and the food you eat. To the government - eventually that guaranteed Social Security and 401k will be means tested, and it appears you're spending on luxuries…

> Good luck getting a good deal when they know how much you drink and the food you eat. That would go both ways, right? With the extra information, insurance companies would be _more_ keen on insuring those who behave in a way that makes insurance payouts less likely.

You'd think, right?

I wouldn't hold my breath, though. My car insurance was set at about $900/year by my insurer for 5 or 6 years. In that time, they never once lowered the price, even though I had one or two tickets expire, had a perfect driving record during that time, and my car lost about half its value due to aging.

Only when I finally decided to get a new quote from my credit union - about $400 for the year (less than half I'd been paying for years) - did my current insurer offer to reduce to the close to that price which is what I would have been paying had I been a new customer with my current record.

In other words, corporations will find a way to extract the maximum possible from everyone.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#373

Post by s73v3r_ »

ovao wrote: post #354
s73v3r_ wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of alternatives, for one. Second would be someone for whom the rest of their social network is on Facebook, and they use Facebook as a primary communications source. I know nobody would be willing to sign up for another network or use another messenger just because I don't want to use FB messenger. I cannot get behind the idea that ostracizing yourself from there rest of your friends and family is an acceptable…

I believe users should have control of their data. I don’t have any issue with the GDPR in that respect, and that’s not what I’ve taken issue with. When you say “no thanks”, that’s a user exercising control over their data, and is an action which necessarily involves no governmental body. I take issue with this specific stipulation that — even with clear and upfront user consent — a business simply cannot operate in…

"I believe users should have control of their data."

If you believe the only way they should be able to do that is to become a digital hermit, then you don't really believe that.

"When you say “no thanks”, that’s a user exercising control over their data, and is an action which necessarily involves no governmental body."

What about Facebook's shadow profiles?

"a business simply cannot operate in ways that are A) not opposed to the safety or health of their users"

There is nothing about the GDPR that opposes this. Not a one.

"B) potentially necessary to succeed in the markets in which they participate."

This most assuredly is not part of the GDPR. If the only reason your business has a chance of succeeding is by ignoring user privacy and ignoring the safety of user data, your business does not deserve to succeed.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#374

Post by ovao »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #373
ovao wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe users should have control of their data. I don’t have any issue with the GDPR in that respect, and that’s not what I’ve taken issue with. When you say “no thanks”, that’s a user exercising control over their data, and is an action which necessarily involves no governmental body. I take issue with this specific stipulation that — even with clear and upfront user consent — a business simply cannot operate in…

"I believe users should have control of their data." If you believe the only way they should be able to do that is to become a digital hermit, then you don't really believe that. "When you say “no thanks”, that’s a user exercising control over their data, and is an action which necessarily involves no governmental body." What about Facebook's shadow profiles? "a business simply cannot operate in ways that are A) not…

I'm sorry, but we can't have a productive discussion if you're simply going to mischaracterize what I've said and make false assertions as to what my own beliefs are.

I've been cordial to this point, but if cordiality isn't there on both sides, there's no point.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#375

Post by sudouser »

sudouser wrote: post #298
pgwhalen wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though you never hear the counterpoint on HN, it’s important to remember that FB’s behaviors are not necessarily objectively bad - people can have different views on these things.

Facebook is a textbook on dark ux and addiction

pinterest too

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#376

Post by sudouser »

chillacy wrote: post #350
sudouser wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is a textbook on dark ux and addiction

I could see someone saying that the ends justify the means. Check out this line of thought: 1. I support opt-in by default organ donation because even though it's a "dark pattern", it creates the most public good. 2. I think developing AI will lead to lots of good things. Therefore I think the ends justify the means.

yes, sadly people in the tech space don’t put a lot of thought in the consequences of their actions in the long term. Ie do we really need more engagement in video games even if customers forget to eat??

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#377

Post by s73v3r_ »

ovao wrote: post #374
s73v3r_ wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I believe users should have control of their data." If you believe the only way they should be able to do that is to become a digital hermit, then you don't really believe that. "When you say “no thanks”, that’s a user exercising control over their data, and is an action which necessarily involves no governmental body." What about Facebook's shadow profiles? "a business simply cannot operate in ways that are A) not…

I'm sorry, but we can't have a productive discussion if you're simply going to mischaracterize what I've said and make false assertions as to what my own beliefs are. I've been cordial to this point, but if cordiality isn't there on both sides, there's no point.

I've not mischaracterized what you've said. While you can say you believe that a user should have control over their data, if the only way you believe that should be exercised is through the "take it or leave it" model, then, in practice, that's not giving users control over their data.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#378

Post by Tharkun »

mpweiher wrote: post #365
Tharkun wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have been more clear in my comment, I was referring to international high speed trains. Including mandatory registration of passengers and keeping the data for X years. Presumably these passenger manifests are also exchanged with other countries. But even regional services include oodles of cameras, including on the trains. There's tracking of passengers and their destination. There are heavily armed guards/…

Hmmm...those trains I step onto are (a) typically high speed and (b) quite often "international", though the concept really doesn't make much sense in the Schengen Area. Are you talking about the Eurostar service from London (I remember the Waterloo station, though I hear it has moved to St. Pancras). That's the only one I can think of that fits your description. The Thalys from Cologne to Paris via Belgium is/was al…

The Thalys has security theatre with luggage x-ray in several locations, including Paris and Antwerp. It's currently not active 24/7, but it will be soon.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#379

Post by Angostura »

tedunangst wrote: post #257
Angostura wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To give you an idea, I work at a school. Every member of teaching staff all of admin, site-services and IT have had GDPR training. Getting consent for photos, for school trips, referral to outside agencies is a substantial issue, as is leaving student records on desks, keeping files with PII on encrypted sticks etc. This is a school.

That's interesting. So now a student can come back and demand you delete their permission slip for a field trip?

Schools collect data under several of the possible lawful bases

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

In the case of a permission slip - the school already holds lots of info that the school collects under the 'Public Task or 'Legal Obligation' bases.

The slip then contains additional information that is only collect because the kid is going on a trip, but is necessary for the trip. This would be collected under the Contract basis 'If you want to go on this trip, the following info is necessary'.

If the school also wants to take photos of the child on the trip, for example, then the parent will be asked for consent.

So to answer your question, the parent (assuming the child is under 16) could ask for:

1. The photo consent to be removed - in which case the trip must continue

2. The info pertaining to the school trip to be removed (in which case the kid would no longer be going on the trip)

But they cannot request the core data that the school holds to be removed, unless they take their kid to another school.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#380

Post by mercer »

rock_hard wrote: post #370
Domenic_S wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what you mean by "profile". I've got a feeling you're using a very specific definition and we're not going to come to an agreement. For me, a shadow profile is a set of data that can be correlated with you personally after the fact if you do decide to sign up for an account.

I can agree with you on that definition and have yet to see evidence that they do what you say. I think we need to distinguish what data collection means...just because you have a Facebook cookie in your browser which causes the browser to fire a request everytime there is a call to facebooks domains and therefore send meta information about OS, Browser, IP, etc (which is hard to turn off without reinventing the web)…

Why is assuming the worst not a useful position to take? In particular when it comes to a corporation that doesn't have my best interests as its primary concern (if at all)?

I'd argue that, in general, assuming the worst is probably the best starting point. Trust is earned, not the default.

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