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How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

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Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#371

Post by racer-v »

mlinksva wrote: post #27

Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero.

> ban human drivers entirely

Such a utopia: not only do the police have a monopoly on violence, but also private transportation.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#372

Post by mmirate »

bluntfang wrote: post #171
dragonshed wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is in the need for a shower and change of clothes afterwards.

you really don't need to shower and change your clothes. You can if you want to ride your bike fast and push your physical limits, but generally casual biking won't make you sweat more than if you were walking.

Generally, casual biking has little average-speed benefit over walking, in which case why bother?

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#373

Post by emj »

raverbashing wrote: post #290
Joe-Z wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>New technologies require new ways of organizing things... I think it's pretty clear by now that organizing whole cities around the automobile was a huge step in the wrong direction and the sooner we begin to correct it the better. Just look at Copenhagen as a shining example of a city that began re-focusing its traffic on actual people (and not f *ing metal boxes taking up way too much space) decades ago.

Yes, I've been to Copenhagen and they still have traffic lights and pedestrian lights The fact that you're not prioritizing the car doesn't mean you can leave pedestrians and cars to self-organize

Traffic lights are for organizing cars, that's the whole point of the article. Pedestrians and bycyclists are just bystanders that suffers greatly from them.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#374

Post by akusete »

rickycook wrote: post #361
pyre wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Amsterdam, people cycle in -10°C when there's 10cm of snow on the ground I assume that the parent post meant 0°F which is around -18°C.

why do you assume that? most countries aside from the notable exception of the US use celcius.

The OP stated he lived in a specific part of the US.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#375

Post by mmirate »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #146
Spivak wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite, what are my options for moving distances that are too far to walk, too short to fly, and don't involve vehicles?

You can use a vehicle that is small and slow enough that it won't kill pedestrians on a collision. For example, a bicycle or a segway. There is also mass transit, which can go over rails away from pedestrians or even underground.

> a bicycle

These only work if the destination isn't an event that requires attendees to be presentable and thus avoid smelling like cyclists. (And if it was close enough for a "casual-effort cycling" then it was close enough to walk, too.)

> a segway

These are illegal in a huge number of places, iirc.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#376

Post by Tiktaalik »

alasdair_ wrote: post #365
Tiktaalik wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I see this here on hacker news with people excited about the notion of doing away with stop lights so that AI traffic can flow easily. People are completely ignoring the existence of pedestrians and cyclists. It would not be surprising to see a new crime of "hindering an autonomous automobile" be lobbied for.

>I see this here on hacker news with people excited about the notion of doing away with stop lights so that AI traffic can flow easily. I, too, am a fan of roundabouts.

Haha this is a great example of how North America can use old, tested and proven techniques to make our cities better but instead people are drawn to shiny, fanciful new technologies for a solution instead.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#377

Post by btrettel »

robocat wrote: post #266
btrettel wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transportation cyclist in Texas here. The need for showering is overstated, I think. Even with the summers here I only know one cyclist who would take a shower after cycling, and they only do so for their training, not their commute as far as I know. If you ride at a comfortable pace and are in good shape, I find that a quick 5 minutes in the bathroom to freshen up is plenty, if it's even necessary. I usually wipe sw…

By your description, your "5 minute freshen up" isn't included in your travel time...

I had the time in mind. The ambiguity was a consequence of poor writing. I doubt this takes more than a minute or two in reality, and it's only necessary for perhaps a quarter of the year. Averages to around 30 seconds a day if it takes 2 minutes when necessary.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#378

Post by thescriptkiddie »

Brakenshire wrote: post #139
jdhopeunique wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If automated vehicles become popular, I predict new crimes will be added in addition to jaywalking. Cyclists may be restricted and anything else that confuses AI drivers. If certain intersections or sections of road consistently confuse AI drivers, automakers will lobby for ways to change these roadways. I suspect calls for AI regulation by people like Elon Musk are really attempts at regulatory capture to make autom…

We could end up with roads dedicated to cars being separated from roads dedicated to pedestrians or cyclists. You could imagine if a city was designed from scratch the vehicles could move around almost in tunnel-like back-alleys, with periodic embarkation points into pedestrianized open plazas and boulevards. If Musk's reduction in cost of tunnelling is more than just a pipe-dream, then you might be able to retrofit…

> We could end up with roads dedicated to cars being separated

We tried that, it's called the Interstate Highway System, and it was a half-trillion-dollar disaster.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#379

Post by brucephillips »

thescriptkiddie wrote: post #378
Brakenshire wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could end up with roads dedicated to cars being separated from roads dedicated to pedestrians or cyclists. You could imagine if a city was designed from scratch the vehicles could move around almost in tunnel-like back-alleys, with periodic embarkation points into pedestrianized open plazas and boulevards. If Musk's reduction in cost of tunnelling is more than just a pipe-dream, then you might be able to retrofit…

> We could end up with roads dedicated to cars being separated We tried that, it's called the Interstate Highway System, and it was a half-trillion-dollar disaster.

How so?

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#380

Post by btrettel »

mmirate wrote: post #372
bluntfang wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you really don't need to shower and change your clothes. You can if you want to ride your bike fast and push your physical limits, but generally casual biking won't make you sweat more than if you were walking.

Generally, casual biking has little average-speed benefit over walking, in which case why bother?

What do you mean by casual biking? Walking home takes me a half hour or longer. Biking is less than 10 minutes according to my bike computer. Big time difference. Plus if it's hot I spend a lot less time in the sun on the bike, making biking less sweaty than walking. And I can carry a lot more cargo more comfortably.
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