Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin • Hacker News Board

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#371

Post by blueprint » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 1:17 PM UTC

librvf wrote: post #296

drabiega wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where then, would you draw the line between a currency and a non-currency asset?

When it hits all of: Acceptability Durability Divisibility Stability Portability (Elasticity) If you can't spend it easily, it's not a (functioning) currency. If it spoils or decays within your lifetime it's not a currency. If it's not something you can divide in order to make payments of a more-or-less arbitrary amount, it's not a currency. If you can't predict how much of the asset you will need to pay your bills n…

Are you missing fungibility or is that covered?

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#372

Post by ForHackernews » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 1:29 PM UTC

Epenthesis wrote: post #183

nlperguiy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Main source of instability is price manipulation by big players and market inefficiency (not easy enough to arbitrage between exchanges). It would be interesting to see them do the same thing if BTC market cap is in couple of trillions. For example, if you're on any exchange that lists the total amount of orders in BTC, you can easily catch when the manipulation starts by seeing out of the ordinary sums (triple the a…

Right, but given that that's true today, what makes BTC a store of value? Or should I be parsing the phrase to mean "It's not anything today, but in the long term, once the market cap is large enough, it'll be a store of value"? (I'm not being snarky; I'm legitimately confused by what people mean by the phrase.)

> I'm not being snarky; I'm legitimately confused by what people mean by the phrase.

I am being snarky: They mean "you better hurry up and buy some bitcoin quick, so I can have some new bagholders"

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#373

Post by ForHackernews » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 1:31 PM UTC

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #218

Havoc wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even the true believers have largely switched to advocating the store-of-value/digital gold model of bitcoin. Which is absolutely insane. What's the point of a currency if you can't use it for transactions? Store-of-value? What value?

You exchange it for whatever currency you desire to make smaller transactions with. Even with slow scaling, it should remain suitable for large transactions. As a store of value, it has many desirable properties. There is a fixed supply, it can be used anywhere with internet access, it is secure, and it is very inexpensive to hold. Gold, for instance, has a large potential supply, is very difficult to move and secure…

> it is secure, and it is very inexpensive to hold

https://storeofvalue.github.io/posts/cryptocurrency-hacks-so...

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#374

Post by bjl » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 1:56 PM UTC

speedplane wrote: post #352

ForHackernews wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there are relatively few buyers and sellers in the market and the amounts of transactions are small, so one big mover can shift the price a lot. According to some blockchain site[0] the average transaction volume for BTC is something like $2.25m USD equivalent For comparison, on an average day, SPY[1], which is just one security (albeit a popular one) trades something around $17,160m (e.g. $17.16b). [0] https…

Couldn't you say the same about penny stocks? And won't this problem go away as BTC gets more popular?

Regarding penny stocks, this does happen all the time, although its expressly illegal (look up boiler room scams).

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#375

Post by ascagnel_ » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 2:01 PM UTC

Klathmon wrote: post #181

querulous wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

with pin + chip cards debit/credit cards are 100% push for physical transactions. for online transactions almost every single provider offers one time use card numbers the push/pull problem has been solved for a decade, and not by bitcoin

If there is an option for pull transactions, it will be abused. Even if I push my money to you, you have my address that you can pull from later if you want.

Two problems with this line of argument:

A one-time use CC# by nature can't be abused. And any merchant that attempts to issue fraudulent charges starts to run into legal and regulatory frameworks that issue punishments to anyone who has repeat violations. Punishments that range from being kicked off of a payment processing system all the way up to jail time.

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#376

Post by syllogism » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 2:24 PM UTC

nmj wrote: post #336

alexasmyths wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is it because the implications predicted by orthodox monetary theory?" ---> Bitcoin is not money There is no 'economics' or 'finance' or anything at play. It's Tulip Bulbs without the Tulip Bulbs. There are numbers, being traded back and forth for money 'because'. There is no way to price BTC - there are no real underlying drivers - just what your cab driver and the guy in your office is willing to pay in that day -…

What are your dollars but numbers being added and subtracted in a database? Things have value because people assign them value. There isn't some magical property that makes the trust in US government more legitimate than trust in math and cryptography. It would seem a lot of people would argue in favor of the latter as well.

If you're in the US, your taxes are denominated in US dollars. You can buy US dollars or be jailed.

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#377

Post by cesarb » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 2:24 PM UTC

librvf wrote: post #296

drabiega wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where then, would you draw the line between a currency and a non-currency asset?

When it hits all of: Acceptability Durability Divisibility Stability Portability (Elasticity) If you can't spend it easily, it's not a (functioning) currency. If it spoils or decays within your lifetime it's not a currency. If it's not something you can divide in order to make payments of a more-or-less arbitrary amount, it's not a currency. If you can't predict how much of the asset you will need to pay your bills n…

> If you can't predict how much of the asset you will need to pay your bills next month, it's not a currency

Back in the hyperinflation days, we couldn't predict how many Cr$ we would need to pay our bills in the next month. That didn't keep it from being a currency.

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#378

Post by Double_a_92 » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 2:31 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #367

thom wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could fairly easily rationalise to yourself that Bitcoin _will_ one day be money, and we haven't reached its true value yet, so nobody wants to miss their piece of the pie when that happens.

A few years ago the Winklevoss' said their target is $600,000 per coin. When I heard that, I thought they were insane. Now, I'm not so sure.

That would be the price it bitcoin was used in about 10% of all transactions worldwide.

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#379

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 2:33 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #339

Bromlife wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Until we pay rent, wages & stock with Bitcoin, it's essentially just digital gold bullion. You'd be an idiot to pay for any service with Bitcoin. A million dollar pizza makes for a great news story, but it would suck knowing that you effectively let go of millions of dollars just to buy a pizza. Bitcoin holders are disincentivized from spending it.

It's almost like being inherently deflationary is a negative property for a currency to have...but that can't be true, because lots of cryptobugs have explained to me at great length why this is actually Good For Bitcoin.

[deleted]

Re: Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

#380

Post by Double_a_92 » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

infogulch wrote: post #305

derriz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? The volatility is a HUGE problem for bitcoin as a currency. If I run a small business, accepting payment in bitcoin just creates risk. The state of my business not only depends on the quality and success of my product/service but also on the volatility of bitcoin because by accepting bitcoin I am forced to effectively take a long position on BTC. The price could crash by 25% before I sell the bitcoin and now I've…

If transactions were confirmed quickly with low fees, you could just turn around the Bitcoin in a few minutes in the exchange for dollars, all automatically. The price won't change that much on the timescale of minutes, so add in a small buffer percentage to make up the leftover difference and you're done.

That's where IOTA and/or Stellar Lumen come into play.