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Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

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Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#371

Post by khedoros1 »

katastic wrote: post #363
khedoros1 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I propose Donald Trump use the NSA (legally) to steal all of this information to track illegal immigrants who pass between Mexico and the USA border who don't have a passport on file. > Wow, that's really fucked up, huh? Well, fucked up that you're picking specifically on the Mexicans, sure (it's not right to ratchet up enforcement on just one nationality or race). And more than a little heavy-handed on enforcement…

You're intentionally focusing on a piece of my argument that you can distort into racism so you don't have to debate the rest. I picked Mexican deportation because it's an issue WE all disagree with. It's using common ground to make an argument. You might as well be calling anyone who says "hitler was evil" a neo-Nazi. I'm arguing AGAINST giving Trump tools for deportation. Get off your moral high horse so you can re…

> I'm arguing AGAINST giving Trump tools for deportation.

I understand that. I picked that section of your argument to attack because I'm against targeting specific races or nationalities, but I'm not against enforcing our current laws against criminals. We should absolutely enforce our immigration laws. Just like we should enforce our laws governing medical privacy and such.

I disagree with "Mexican deportation" because it's targeting the wrong thing. Anyone subject to deportation should be deported, not just some specific race or nationality. If that's not what the country wants anymore, cool, that'll generate the support to overhaul the laws. Loosen residency and citizenship requirements. Get it so those people don't have to hide in the shadows.

This "sanctuary city/state" crap is just prolonging the pain. It's a net negative for the states and the country as a whole.

As a whole, I'm against giving the government more information than it already has. But your argument made assumptions that don't hold, through much of the country. It was like reading "Civil forfeiture is unjust and should be outlawed. We should be allowed to transport our life savings in cash cross-country. And also the money from that chop shop we run in our spare time."

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#372

Post by sjwright »

blibble wrote: post #308
sjwright wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would they not? Because this sort of thing inevitably leaks? Apple has a formula that demonstrably works, a formula that everyone can directly observe making them an utterly stupid amount of money. It would be the height of stupidity to risk their unparalleled monetary successes to pursue a few dirty little crumbs.

outside of the nerds, how much of a percentage of apple users would switch if it did come out they had been doing this? it's going to be less than 1% ... and where are they going to go?

I think it would have much greater repercussions over time, eliminating one of the few concrete advantages of Apple products. But for now let's assume it only lost them a tiny share, perhaps one percent. Even that is a massive fortune compared to the money Apple could possibly make selling a bit of marketing data under the table.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#373

Post by sjwright »

saiya-jin wrote: post #290
aoeusnth1 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly - especially when you are employing privacy-conscious developers, it would be nearly impossible to keep it contained. Someone would leak it to the EFF. It's better business strategy for Apple to not defect.

Guys, this is all just plain old wishful thinking. Neither you, nor me, nor most people here have any real clue what decisions are being done behind closed doors of Apple, or other companies. All the high profile cases are mostly PR-oriented, see how PRISM was handled (not that they had any choice, but it is what it is). Don't attach these emotions where they are not appropriate. Apple is a for-profit company. If the…

I think you massively overestimate the power of the US government. What would they do if Apple said no? Shut them down? Put Tim Cook in jail? Never going to happen. That perception of power might exist against mere civilians, but not against the big multinationals.

Apple has engineered their products to be unbreakable by Apple. That says a lot about their desire to cooperate!

Apple's billions held internationally aren't hidden, everyone knows where it is. And it was never money destined to be "on-shore" in the first place – it's profits from retail sales which occurred in Europe and elsewhere. Their offices in Ireland have the Apple logo on them and they're one of Ireland's largest taxpayers. Everything they do is on the public record. That money wasn't expatriated from the USA, the IRS isn't owed any of it.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#374

Post by cptskippy »

kerberos84 wrote: post #332
cptskippy wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we should trust any of the big tech companies with our data. We should instead accept that anything we share with them is not necessarily private. Despite Apple positioning itself as the privacy minded company righteously protecting your personal information, they still share it with 3rd parties to implement products like Siri. They're very secretive and don't talk about that fact and they only begrudgi…

Totally agree. I don't believe Apple either. But google is getting too aggressive and annoying. Google's 90% of revenue comes from advertising. That means the better they track you the more they will earn with targeted ads. On the other side Apple's revenue relies on mostly iPhone sales. Moreover, Apple started a war against tracking with 3rd party cookies. Which is a very smart move, gaining customer trust and hit t…

> google is getting too aggressive and annoying.

I absolutely agree. They're exerting power the way Microsoft did in the 90s. The latest "feature" of Gmail on Android, where it opens links in a Gmail Browser instead of your default browser, is Microsoft level shit and has me looking for an alternative.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#375

Post by danjoc »

Follow the money.

Location information, ads viewed, and offline credit card purchase information. Google now has all three. Google uses this to determine which ads led you to spend and sells more of those ads.

https://consumerist.com/2017/05/23/google-following-your-off...

They're not going to stop collecting location information, even if you tell them to.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#376

Post by dingo_bat »

scott_karana wrote: post #361
dingo_bat wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd buy the new iphones in a heartbeat but I simply cannot spend that kind of money and put up with weird compromises like no haedphone jack or no fingerprint reader. I wish Samsung would have an option to run tizen on its flagships.

Buy a new 6S then. Apple doesn't immediately abandon their phones, so there's no need to buy the newest out of habit.

I've seen old Apple devices get really slow and sluggish as they get upgraded to new software versions. But you're right, it's better to get a 6s instead of a 7. At least you get full functionality.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#377

Post by dep_b »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #370
dep_b wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a "cheap" Android phone costing US$500 that came out like yesterday is really good at opening and closing applications. The new benchmark of What Makes A Really Great Phone after It Must Have Slim Bezels wasn't an argument anymore.

> So a "cheap" Android phone costing US$500 that came out like yesterday See the second video, which shows a $300 phone of the previous generation beating an iPhone of the latest generation at the time that cost twice as much. I couldn't find a head to head comparison of the iPhone X against a cheap Android of the previous generation, but I expect the outcome to be the same. > is really good at opening and closing ap…

We're measuring performance of computing devices with benchmarks for at least 20 years now. Most of the scenes still do it that way, for example comparing PC performance to Xbox or Playstation. AMD vs Nvidia. Nobody questions that a significant difference in benchmark results means a difference in real life performance.

Except for some people living in the Android world. Why is that?

I think it's a bit like people that are denying climate science. They keep looking for new kinds of benchmarks until they find something that fits their predetermined outcome. Some glacier got longer instead of shorter? and boom see no global warming. Some YouTube dude has a video that makes your phone looks fast? and boom look no further. Benchmarks suck!

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#378

Post by lern_too_spel »

dep_b wrote: post #377
lern_too_spel wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So a "cheap" Android phone costing US$500 that came out like yesterday See the second video, which shows a $300 phone of the previous generation beating an iPhone of the latest generation at the time that cost twice as much. I couldn't find a head to head comparison of the iPhone X against a cheap Android of the previous generation, but I expect the outcome to be the same. > is really good at opening and closing ap…

We're measuring performance of computing devices with benchmarks for at least 20 years now. Most of the scenes still do it that way, for example comparing PC performance to Xbox or Playstation. AMD vs Nvidia. Nobody questions that a significant difference in benchmark results means a difference in real life performance. Except for some people living in the Android world. Why is that? I think it's a bit like people th…

Those benchmarks work ceteris paribus. All else being equal, a faster CPU, faster memory, and faster disk will translate to faster app launch times.

In this case, they don't, as you can see with your own eyes. That's because the platforms are different.

> Some YouTube dude has a video that makes your phone looks fast?

Every single video that shows app launching has the same result. Don't believe them? Try it yourself. If you get a different result and post it to YouTube, all of your fanboy friends will love it, and you'll get some revenue. The rest of us are happy to use the more productive and less expensive phones.

You're like a person who says climate change is due to solar flares but doesn't actually measure the effect of solar flares on climate to realize that there is a huge amount of warming that is not accounted for by that simple analysis.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#379

Post by odammit »

blibble wrote: post #308
sjwright wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would they not? Because this sort of thing inevitably leaks? Apple has a formula that demonstrably works, a formula that everyone can directly observe making them an utterly stupid amount of money. It would be the height of stupidity to risk their unparalleled monetary successes to pursue a few dirty little crumbs.

outside of the nerds, how much of a percentage of apple users would switch if it did come out they had been doing this? it's going to be less than 1% ... and where are they going to go?

I’m a nerd and I wouldn’t switch.

I’d be pissed for an hour but at the end of the day my phone, laptop, watch, TV and car all syncing my music and crap with no effort is too appealing to scoff at.

Hell if I found out they had a meat locker of dead kittens hidden in the basement of 1 Infinite Loop Id probably stay loyal.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#380

Post by odammit »

AlphaSite wrote: post #323
andrepd wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's smoke and mirrors. What guarantees you that Apple isn't collecting your location right now ? It's proprietary software, so you wouldn't know, and it's perfectly within the terms of their EULA. You're just gonna trust that they don't (even though they are a business and that can potentially make them more money)? Or are you gonna know your phone isn't spying in you by installing free software on your device?

OpenSSL proved to me that being open source doesn’t mean anyone actually checks what it’s doing. It could be checked, but it would be trivial to sneak in things.

Ring a ding. This.

Every time I see a comment about an open source phone I am curious if the poster of the comment is actually going to fine comb the code base.

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