Live data from Hacker News

China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

techcrunch.com

371–380 of 386 posts

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can create a new cryptocurrency over a weekend. It's not really that hard and most of these ICOs are just copycats with few parameter changes. Projects which actually develop something new are very few so kudos to them. Majority are just quick copies of existing code and rebranding.

No. 2013 was a lot of clones of bitcoin with a few parameters changed. Nowadays ICOs I'm seeing involve a lot of very hard work. The risk is that the teams may way under-estimate how much work it is (And I think that's what's going to cause them to fail) but they are a lot more ambitious than you are characterizing.

> Nowadays ICOs I'm seeing involve a lot of very hard work.

For example? What ICO idea is not a previously failed startup? Distributed file storage that's been built a few times and each time turned out to be painfully slow and impractical? An iOS and Android port of the wallet software? Yet another browser?

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally saying "Give us your money and we will give you nothing in return"! WTF?!

And EOS has been one of the biggest ICOs. Also, despite the "no US citizens" bit, it's been advertising to the general public in the US (and in the UK). They are selling an ERC-20 magic bean to be traded on the bubble machines, and both buyers and sellers are going nod-nod wink-wink.

Offtopic, but I just finished reading your book, and you, sir, are very eloquent.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was a needed move. > We are entering a brave new world with cryptocoins as they reach the mainstream. You can't have both. decide

I'm confused. They both relate to each other, don't they? For crypto to reach and be accepted by the mainstream, people need to know that everything is being done to prevent people from being scammed. It's surprisingly easy to fork an existing cryptocurrency and create your own. Anyone could create a new coin in a couple of hours, most of the time spent on the marketing site. For crypto to be accepted beyond speculat…

All that and more is provided by conventional physical and digital money.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#374
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ultimately comes down to what flavour of politics you subscribe to. The key question is whether you think that the public should be protected against the abuses of the free market, or if the free market should be a complete free-for-all. For example, Dodd-Frank solved a concrete problem, and there have been countless studies that show it it responsible for stabilizing the US economy. But ultimately, wanting to die…

Those "studies" are self serving. That is the political propaganda keeping you feeling safe in having your rights violated. This isn't a question of flavor of politics- but fundamental rights. Do you have freedom of association or not? Secondly, you think its "fairly clear to [you]" that these ICOs are scams. I am sure some are, but I know for a fact that many are not. I am quite capable of telling the difference (as…

lol a radical libertarian I see you are. You have every right to trust your own ideas, right, but calling every "studies" as self-serving is a bit too far. I'd say the right-wing studies and arguments for a completely free market are just as likely, if not more likely, to be totally self-serving and lacking in objective truths.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I recommend that you realise your arguments for a totally free market are exactly as useful as the arguments for a state controlled economy. It doesn't work because people will always screw each other over. This is the reason communism is not viable, and it is the reason libertarianism is not viable either. I believe people will screw each other over no matter what system you use. In a regulated economy people will…

I believe people will screw each other over no matter what system you use. In a regulated economy people will screw other people by lobbying for regulations that protect their industry from competition. Just like people will always abuse the system. People hae learned to do this, especially in the US. Your solution is simply to make it easier for companies to screw people. Why don't people boycott companies TODAY whe…

>>Your solution is simply to make it easier for companies to screw people. Why don't people boycott companies TODAY when they do this?

In the previous comment I explained why I don't think this will make it any easier, on the balance, for companies to screw people over. Please go over my previous comment again as I explain what I see as the trade-offs of more regulations, and how they are slanted toward people being screwed over more.

>If they do they are thrown in jail.

If they're caught. And that applies to a world without food regulations as well. Just because there's no regulatory requirement to have the food certified by the USDA doesn't mean it becomes legal to sell goop marketed as milk. That's still fraud, because it's a violation of basic contracting law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied-in-fact_contract

>>Regardings costs. Peopme are so amazingly bad at making decisions as a group.

I disagree completely. I think the market is a marvellous way to bring our collective intelligence to bear to guide product development, and is resulting in consumer food purchases becoming healthier and consumer options becoming more diverse over time. Consumer choice is the reason organic foods have seen their market share grow so much over the decades. It's the reason product diversity in supermarkets has grown so much. People are willing to pay for quality, and as society becomes more prosperous, we'll see more value-added food of higher quality.

>>>A great many industries were kickstarted by government subsidy.

Government subsidies can indeed kickstart an industry by bringing about advances in basic science and by incubating new industries, but that's not relevant to the debate of whether we should be restricting market choices with regulations, and whether industries will evolve faster with or without such regulations.

>>This is indeed a problem, but your solution is essentially to just let companies do what they would otherwise be have to lobby for. Most lobbying cases are for laxed regulation or to allow companies to get away with monopolistic practices.

My solution is to let the companies be regulated by consumer choice. Seems like the least corruptible and best incentivized system of development for an industry.

As for monopolistic practices, I endorse public funding of public options in monopolistic sectors, instead of regulations that violate the right of private market participants to act freely.

>We can argue the word "freely" then. I don't believe people freely enter contractual relationships when one side has a clear power advantage and actively tries to manipulate you.

A court of law, made up of a jury of our peers, should be determining what contract was entered into freely, not a sweeping snap judgement about an entire class of contracts without looking at the specific details of each case.

I strongly disagree with your notion that any agreement between parties of unequal wealth levels is nonconsensual, and I believe any court of law would disagree with you as well, as being inconsistent with established and legal understandings of consent.

I think one should take ideology out of these considerations and defer to the courts on issues of contract law. That's essentially what I'm endorsing by promoting the free market.

>>Perhaps you should consider that the system we have to day was born out of people making their decison to not have 100% libertarianism because they were smart enough. By your logic this would be all the reason you would ever need.

I don't believe people are smart when it comes to macro issues like economics, and thus I believe they collectively impose incredibly destructive economic policies like socialism, anti-free-market regulations, etc. through the political process, which lets the mob forcefully impose its will on everyone.

The economy is too complex for any one person to understand, so what people often do is oversimplify it with ideological notions about evil corporations, and how regulations written by some legislature can allegedly make them act in the public interest, which in reality is nonsense, and ignores how agents in the economy actually operate, and what incentives actually drive positive and economically productive behaviour.

I believe the complexity of the economy can only be addressed in a decentralized fashion, through the spontaneous emergence of market supply chains and prices, that represent the collaborative coordination of economic resources by a diverse set of parties each acting based on localized information, and who through their market actions, contribute that localized knowledge to public information resources about the larger economic picture.

It's important to try to help the average person understand that the market does work in the long run for most areas of the economy, and not to buy into the siren call of centralized and simplistic government solutions.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With ICOs, there is a risk that people outside of the party circles actually making enough money to question and ask for some change.

With most ICOs there is no risk that anyone other than the persons who created the ICO's will make money.

If you mean that there are plenty of ICOs that are scams operated by criminals, they yes you are probably right but regulation doesn't stop crime.

Can you actually picture in your mind a criminal preparing to do something criminal and stopping because it's actually illegal too?

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#377
post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin doesn't cooperate with anybody. Go try and turn your Bitcoin into cash and then tell me how true this statement is.

The purpose of bitcoin is to be used. Once it has seen enough adoption, you don't turn it into cash. It is cash. Also I do local bitcoin transactions just fine thank you very much.

Once it has seen enough adoption, you don't turn it into cash.

Therein lies the rub and the crux of my point. A government WONT LET IT see enough adoption that you can subvert the sovereign monetary system.

I think you underestimate how big of a deal it would be to move 100% of commerce off of the USD. Nations go to war for less.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#378
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when you could do kickstarters with simulated renders of your product and everyone got scammed constantly? It's because of that

Never happened. Some kick starters didn't deliver, but you're factually wrong-- these laws have existed for decades before Kickstarter started-- and you ignore my point. You can lose your life savings in a weekend in Las Vegas and nobody bats an eye.

There are regulations for casinos as well.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#379
post #360
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what makes you think china's institutions aren't?

Oppressive regimes are usually effective at making decisions that hurt many individuals (even unfairly) for the (supposed?) benefit of the collective.

that's very optimistic if not naive. the ones who usually benefit are the oppressors, the rest are left to their own devices if they aren't causing problems - real or perceived - or even are deemed to cause problems in the future even if they do nothing wrong right now. the collective benefits only in utopia circumstances, ie. never.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#380
post #360
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what makes you think china's institutions aren't?

Oppressive regimes are usually effective at making decisions that hurt many individuals (even unfairly) for the (supposed?) benefit of the collective.

Nah that kind of view is just naive. First I don't think a simple moniker of "oppressive regime" makes any sense except for political propaganda purposes. If you say China is an oppressive regime so is the US, and the US might be even more of a state basically based on slavery really.

Second, the truth is the capitalism in China is even wilder and more libertarian in a sense than that in the US. It's just that the central authority still acts quickly enough. The rich people are still basically in the same bunch, whether it's the officials or the businessmen, and the gap between the rich and poor is widening ridiculously fast.

Post reply on HN