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European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

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Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#371

Post by crdoconnor »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #275

I might be in a minority here and I'll probably get down voted but this result scares me... and I used to be CTO one of those competing price comparison sites that show up lower in the results so if anyone should agree it should be me. While it made me angry when Google put their results above ours, I never questioned that they had a right to do that. It is their website. They are not a utility. At what point does a…

>They are not a utility.

It actually seems to match the definition of public utility perfectly. The infrastructural cost of building another Google is incredibly high and people rely heavily upon it.

You can "just build another google" the same way you can "just build an electricity network" for a large town.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#372

Post by denis1 »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #354
denis1 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you should be happy, that the EU actually uses their regulatory power to benefit the consumer no matter how big the company they're going against is.

Does it benefit the consumer though? I fail to see how showing links to search results pages from other companies in response to a product query is better for consumers than just showing them a listing of the products they actually searched for. [Google's response][1] to this ruling suggests they have data which confirms this: > While some comparison shopping sites naturally want Google to show them more prominently,…

> I fail to see how showing links to search results pages from other companies in response to a product query is better for consumers than just showing them a listing of the products they actually searched for.

But that is not what google does. I just did a search for "samsung galaxy s8". Instead of the first result being a link to a Samsung page I got 3 results that where ads (one of them being for the new oneplus). How does that match the "show what people searched for"? The results where sorted by "how much money did google receive" instead of "what the user intended".

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#373

Post by crdoconnor »

jpttsn wrote: post #299
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the answer is that Google should be a utility. Search is obviously a natural monopoly.

Can you deign to explain why you think so, or is it so obvious that I should just be ashamed for not seeing it?

Public utilities are public because of the vast expense of building and maintaining the infrastructure required to run them and because of how much people rely upon it.

This applies 100% to Google. Even it's closest "startup competitor" hangs off bing's index.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#374

Post by kilotaras »

kilotaras wrote: post #277
dustinmoris wrote: post #125

Someone said once something which really describes this well: The EU hasn't contributed ANYTHING to the internet, but they are the ones who want to regulate it the most. :(

> The EU hasn't contributed ANYTHING to the internet Of top of my head: 1. WWW was created in CERN, which is funded mostly by EU countries [1] 2. Linux which accounts for more than 2/3 of web servers was created in Sweden. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN#Member_states_and_budget

Sorry, Linus is from Finland, not Sweden. Unfortunately it's too late to edit post now.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#375

Post by strictnein »

raverbashing wrote: post #141
dustinmoris wrote: post #125

Someone said once something which really describes this well: The EU hasn't contributed ANYTHING to the internet, but they are the ones who want to regulate it the most. :(

Enjoy your non-neutral internet in the US and your extortionate roaming fees when you walk closer to Canada And if by the EU you mean its countries, you're so wrong it's not even funny, but the US bubble is strong

> Enjoy your non-neutral internet in the US

This isn't really a thing you realize, right? But what is a thing is many European countries wanting to gut encryption. Enjoy your non-secure communications.

> "your extortionate roaming fees when you walk closer to Canada"

What does that even mean? Many carrier plans now include roaming throughout Canada and Mexico by default. That covers over twice the land mass of Europe.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#376

Post by yellow_postit »

mythz wrote: post #344
lkbm wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds a lot like deciding what programs are included in your operating system. Do you consider this materially different, and if so why?

You can easily go to another website if you want results from a different vendor. If you're searching on Google you'd expect results curated from Google, if you can get better, more relevant results else where, everyone can easily do so. I also wouldn't expect any of my Desktop Apps to be laced with content or functionality from competitive products.

Applying this line of reasoning, do you disagree with the EU ruling about browser choice that Microsoft had to comply with?

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#377

Post by jlarocco »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #275

I might be in a minority here and I'll probably get down voted but this result scares me... and I used to be CTO one of those competing price comparison sites that show up lower in the results so if anyone should agree it should be me. While it made me angry when Google put their results above ours, I never questioned that they had a right to do that. It is their website. They are not a utility. At what point does a…

It's really not hard to understand, and if you're a CTO you should probably be aware of how this works. It's an abuse when a company uses their dominance in one area (like search) to undermine their competitors in a different market (like product comparison and shopping).

That's the case here, and it was the case when Microsoft got in trouble for bundling IE with Windows.

I'm actually glad to see this ruling. It's nice to know there's at least one place in the world where the government still cares a little bit about not letting giant corporations take advantage of their citizens.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#378

Post by mythz »

zdkl wrote: post #367
Ajedi32 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it benefit the consumer though? I fail to see how showing links to search results pages from other companies in response to a product query is better for consumers than just showing them a listing of the products they actually searched for. [Google's response][1] to this ruling suggests they have data which confirms this: > While some comparison shopping sites naturally want Google to show them more prominently,…

As a consumer, I have (much) more trust that my interests are advanced by the EU than google. This is an opinion which I don't feel the need to convert anyone to but I really don't understand the opposite view. Can someone explain why they believe google and other "emerging" power centers saveguard their interests better than the EU?

Why are you using Google then? Use a Service you can trust or you believe has your best interests at heart.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#379

Post by baq »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #289
throwaway2016a wrote: post #275

I might be in a minority here and I'll probably get down voted but this result scares me... and I used to be CTO one of those competing price comparison sites that show up lower in the results so if anyone should agree it should be me. While it made me angry when Google put their results above ours, I never questioned that they had a right to do that. It is their website. They are not a utility. At what point does a…

Maybe the answer is that Google should be a utility. Search is obviously a natural monopoly.

not sure why you're being downvoted, it's a very valid question in the digital age.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#380

Post by Ajedi32 »

denis1 wrote: post #372
Ajedi32 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it benefit the consumer though? I fail to see how showing links to search results pages from other companies in response to a product query is better for consumers than just showing them a listing of the products they actually searched for. [Google's response][1] to this ruling suggests they have data which confirms this: > While some comparison shopping sites naturally want Google to show them more prominently,…

> I fail to see how showing links to search results pages from other companies in response to a product query is better for consumers than just showing them a listing of the products they actually searched for. But that is not what google does. I just did a search for "samsung galaxy s8". Instead of the first result being a link to a Samsung page I got 3 results that where ads (one of them being for the new oneplus).…

That's not what I get at all: https://i.imgur.com/nKpAYKX.png

Regardless of what you're seeing though, ads are a necessary part of Google Search; it's how they make their money. IMO it's a little strange to be complaining that Google is showing you ads in your search results.

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